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TALMUD TORAH-----kollel 12

LostandConfused Posted - 30 November 2005 16:05

As a senior in high school, I find that whenever a group of us gets together, the subject of marriage always comes up, and the teachers are constantly telling us: As a future Em Beyisroel, you'll have to... To tell you the truth, I'm sick of the subject.

However, I noticed a paradox in the way Jews seem to view the marriage issue, and it's causing me a lot of problems.

I was directed to this site by a friend who said someone could probably explain this paradox.

It seems that there are two schools of thoughts on who you should marry:

Either a Kollel boy who learns all day, or someone like in the more modern Orthodox circles who also works and is able to support a family.

It seems that marrying a Kollel boy is what gets more praised of the two, because that way she'll get to support her husband and keep him learning.

But if she's expected to support him, then how can she stay home and take care of the kids?

There just aren't enough hours in the day to do both!

Sorry if this doesn't sound too clear...I'll try and clarify when I find the proper words.

Also, I'm sorry if this is posted in the wrong forum.

phoebe Posted - 15 January 2006 16:36

I'm not sure why no one answered this question, as it's a really important one. So I guess I'll say my opinion.

You're not OBLIGATED to financially support your family - your husband signed in the kesubah that HE will take that responsibility. (also: MAN's curse of "bizai'os apechah tochal lechem")

However, if you want a part in your husband’s torah, which you know supports the whole world, and is the biggest zechus you can get (talmud torah kineged KULAM) then you would tell him to learn as much as possible and you'll take the financial responsibility. If you are not capable of doing this, then DON'T!

But if Hashem gave you the capability of doing this there is no comparison to the reward you'll be getting

MODERATOR Posted - 15 January 2006 17:44

phobe answered it, and it was addressed many times on the site.

Ideally, the wife should be at home with the kids, and taking care of domestic needs.

But the bigger a tamid chacham the husband is, the more he learns torah, the bigger zechus it is for the wife. And the better it is for the children.

Unfortunately, you usually cant have both.

So its up to the couple to decide what they want in a home. The higher level of holiness - though not obligatory - and the greater merit - though not obligatory - is for the wife to work to support her husband. Talmud Torah kneged kulam. That’s priority in terms of merits. The merit of Torah outshines all else.

Sister Bear Posted - 26 January 2006 17:38

Mod, the price of which you speak is that the kids nowadays have no mothers.

We're not talking simply about a simple trade-off of "well, the father's gotta learn and talmud torah k'neged kulam, so let's have our kids raised by Filipinos (nothing personal) so their fathers can learn.

It doesn't help that the fathers are immersed in torah if there's no-one to transmit that torah to the next generation. What good can it possibly do that the father is learning in kollel if as far as the kids are concerned there is no parents?

One of the major causes of the at-risk-teens epidemic is the fact that kids feel removed from their parents. This of course applies also to situations where both parents are working (versus learning), but when faced with a choice of actually raising our sons and daughters to follow the torah, and having a mother who is home to chazzer with her children and teach them aleph bais or to have the mother out all day working so her husband can bask in Torah, but neglect her maternal duties, I think it is imperative that we see which is the correct path to take.

I can think of only one thing more important than learning Torah learning, and that is making sure that our children see how precious Torah is, and are embedded with a love for Torah from the second they are born. But this is only possible if their mother is home to transmit the Torah to them, because after all, parnassah is not the responsibility of the wife, but teaching her children love of Yiddishkeit is.
sorry for the spew, but I really feel strongly on this one...

MODERATOR Posted - 26 January 2006 18:48

Although babysitters are not the ideal, to say that a child whose mother works has "no mother" is not true.

If the mother was running around playing poker or going to the movies or shopping, that would be neglect.

But when a mother goes out to be moser nefesh in order to bring home money so that her husband can bring home Torah, her values shine through and are felt by her children. And her mesiras nefesh, that is the source of her children's appreciation for Torah.

Please note that in Eishes Chayil, where it speaks of the model woman, the entire chapter describes her mesiras nefesh of how she works to bring home food to support her family, so that her husband can "be known in the gates" - meaning a famous Talmid Chacham.

But look: after the entire chapter, about how because of her husband is so renowned, in posuk 28, it says: "Her children get up and they laud her; her husband praises her". Sounds like her children are praising her even before her husband? But why? So far we only read mostly about how her husband gained from her (pesukim 11, 12, 23). Her children only get incidental mention (posuk 15).

The answer is (it's pretty obvious). if a woman is moser nefesh for the husband to be a Talmid chacham, the first people who will praise her are her children.

Even before the husband himself.

Because they gain the most.

neshama Posted - 26 January 2006 22:34

GREAT pshat mod. I’m in an awesome mood right now.

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