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SCHAR V'ONESH-----death and olam haba

grl01 Posted - 11 December 2000 15:53

Whenever I hear about a good person (like a Rabbi) getting killed or hurt I feel that God screwed up somehow.

I mean, how come I'm still here? I deserve to die, not them! I'm the horrible person! It makes me feel so guilty, like it's my fault I'm still here. I'm the one who wants to die, so why shouldn't I?

When I hear of someone dying it doesn't make me rethink my thoughts about dying, it makes me want to die even more!

If I'm dead I don't have to deal with the guilt of being alive (does this make any sense?)

And why are these good people dying???? It feels like God is playing with my mind!

- 11 December 2000 17:39

Please see my post of - 22 May 2000 16:42, in Us, Evil, and Proofs / Am I Evil?, where I explain why everyone -- even grl01 -- is considered valuable to Hashem beyond imagining.

It's the Yetzer Horah that tries to convince you otherwise, and it's a mistake.

About death, everyone has a job in this world. When their job is finished, they go to the next world. This world is only temporary.

When a rabbi dies, it's because his job is done. He's better off where he is. We cry when people die because WE lose them -- we cry for us. But them, if they are Tzadikim, they are in a better place.

Remember that when you die you're not erased, you just move from place to place.

To say that you should be dead instead of them only means that you should be in the forever world and they should be in the temporary world, which, when you think about it, doesn't make much sense.

But what is it that makes you think you should be dead? Is there a particular reason you feel guilty for being alive?

Posted - 19 December 2000 17:08

What’s so bad about dying altogether?

I mean isn’t it better up there? so close to g-d with no evil?

Not that I want to die but why is it such a bad thing?

MODERATOR Posted - 19 December 2000 17:37

Because not everyone who dies is close to G-d. Some people are very far away because of their sins in this world.

For them, being so near to G-d but yet so far is excruciatingly painful.

And up there every inch closer to G-d is so much better, and every inch further away is so much worse. Only in this world do we have the opportunity to enable ourselves to get close to G-d in the next world.

Every Mitzvah we do enables us to get closer to Him. We would therefore like to stay in this world as long as possible in order to earn more and more Mitzvos to be able to be closer to Hashem.

sunshine00 Posted - 20 December 2000 3:06

Even if we do more mitzvos, we are only beinonim and we are bound to do more aveiros too.

We will only have to go through a longer and more painful cleansing process. we all go to gan eden eventually.

Our neshamas hate the physical world because it is so impure.

If our neshamas hate it and it’s hard physically, then why did G-d put us here in the first place?

MODERATOR Posted - 20 December 2000 3:31

Not everyone goes to Gan Eden even after Gehinomm. And not everyone merits to return for the ultimate reward when Moshiach comes.

But you are correct that Beinonim will get cleansed and rewarded anyway.

The reason we are put here is because without being here we could not get Gan Eden (see the Basic Judaism forum for the reason).

And if your question is that for every bit of reward we get we also get punished for our bad deeds so it all equalizes anyway, the answer is it does not.

Rather, for getting the reward of even one Mitzvah it is worth going through all the pains of Gehinnom.

The reward is much better than the punishment is painful. So even if we continue doing both, we are ahead of the game.

1WhoQuestions Posted - 21 December 2000 18:44

What happens to the ones who are not "zocheh" to go to Gan Eden and moshiach? (I think I know the answer... but the whole idea scares me)

MODERATOR Posted - 21 December 2000 18:49

They either come back as a "gilgul", which is more painful than Gehinnom, or they continue to be punished in Gehinnom until they are completely destroyed. However, this only happens to the most evil minority of Jews.

The list of those who will not be around by Techiyas HaMeisim is listed in the Mishna in Sanhedrin (90a). It includes Apikorsim and the like.

Posted - 21 December 2000 18:51

So why don’t we stop while were ahead?

We will always have sins so why don’t we just do as many mitzvos as you can on your death bed.

And why even try to save your life. and it would be great if babies die, they won’t have any sins and they have accomplished their life mission so why not die?

I mean didn’t G-d shorten someone in berashis's life because he saw he would do evil later on?

If babies die in child birth they will never even gat a chance to do evil. It should be a celebration.

MODERATOR Posted - 21 December 2000 18:55

We don't wait for our death bed to do Teshuva because (a) we do not know when we will die, and (b) If we try this trick, Hashem makes it much harder for us to do Teshuva then.

We try to save our life because hashem commanded us to, and therefore when we are in danger but we have an opportunity to save ourselves it means our job is NOT yet over in this world.

The crying when a person dies is for us, not for the dead person. We are crying for ourselves since we lost them. Therefore, if the person who died was a Tzadik - or an innocent baby - who is now in a better place, the loss to us is still not diminished.

live4613 Posted - 28 June 2002 16:12

Moderator, you said that s/o who sinned so much and died can be punished in Gehinnom until they're destroyed.

2 things:

One, it says in the beginning of Pirkei Avos that EVERY Jew has a portion in Olam Habah.

Two, I thought that the longest a person stays in Gehinnom for is 12 months. Which I never really got, b/c there's no time in the Olam Haemes, so how is that possible?

MODERATOR Posted - 28 June 2002 16:16

Kol Yisroel Yesh Lahem CHelek etc. is not part of Pirkei Avos, but an excerpt from a Mishna in Sanhedrin that is used as a kind of an introduction to Avos.

But it is not the whole quote - just the beginning. The rest of the Mishna in Sanhedrin, which is not used as part of the introduction goes, "But the following people have no portion in the world to come."

No, not everyone has a chelek in Olam Habah. What you read at the beginning of Pirkei Avos is not meant to give the whole picture, just merely an inspirational jolt before learning Avos.

And there are more people who have no share in the World to Come, that are not listed in the Mishna in Sanhedrin, but rather in other places in Chazal.

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