LUBAVITCH-----sukkah, shalosh seudos, mezuza, etc

torah613 Posted - 03 August 2001 18:08

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I just heard about this site, and normally I wouldn’t get involved in these issues, but since you are unfortunately succeeding in mixing up young people, I will react to a few (for now) points.

I just want to tell the young Lubs out there, if you have questions - ASK!! Go to a Chassidishe TALMUD CHOCHOM and you will either get real answers based on Halacha, or you will find out that the source of a particular Minhag did not start with our Rebbe ZTL (which would also be a source - in my eyes) but started earlier from earlier Rebeim.

But they would have you believe that it all started now and that they had no problem with Chassidus & the Rebeim and their Minhagim till this generation - which is to a large extent false.

A few examples:

1) Sholosh Suedos: This is not the Rebbe’s chidush - from the Sichos of the previous Rebbe (who we ALL accept!) he brings that this started in the days of the Alter Rebbe (who we ALL accept!) and continued in following generations (See Sefer Hasichos 5789 2nd night of Sukkos and other places).

In addition, this was printed in Hayom Yom in the Previous Rebbe’s lifetime (who we ALL accept!) in the name of the Rashab (who we ALL accept!). The only thing the Rebbe does (in Likutei Sichos v21) is to show that the Minhag of the Alter Rebbe till the Rashab and afterwards has a basis in Halacha also - since everything has to have a basis in Halacha. But the actual Minhag did not start from the Rebbe.

2) Sleeping in the Sukkah: The same situation - the fact is, that throughout history only very few (relatively) slept in the Sukkah.

That is why we find in Poskim that they try to come up with all types of reasons to answer the prevailing Minhag - see Hil. Sukah Siman 639 in Ramoh etc. But whatever the reason - they didn’t sleep there.

The Minhag by Chabad is described in the Sichos of the Previous Rebbe (who we ALL accept!) - see Sefer Hasichos 5699 p. 295 at length (& other places).

Since everything has to have a source in Halacha - the Rebbe (In LS v29) explains (like other poskim before him) how it’s possible not to sleep in the Sukah and still not be lacking in the completeness of the Mitzvah (VAKML).

In other words, in addition to many reasons discussed in poskim why one may be exempt from sleeping in the Sukah, the Rebbe adds another reason. (The reasons they quote from the Sicha is distorted, VAKML).

I would conclude with a famous story that the Rebbe of Belz (the Marid) said that everything he does like it says in Shulchan Aruch except for 3 things, one being not sleeping in the Sukah.

3) Mezuza according to Heker Tzir: Again - there is no mistake, the source of the psak is the Rashab (who we ALL accept!) and earlier (attested to (among others) by R. Yakov Landau zl (the Rav of Bnei Barak) - who heard and received many disputed from the Rebbe Rashab - including Bor al gav Bor (VAKML!!!)), if you don’t know a source in Rishonim - LEARN and you will find - there is one (of course) but this is not the place for Lomdos.

My point being, that everything they attack they claim started from the Rebbe but CV we have nothing against Chabad until the Rebbe - learn and investigate and you will see

1) most (if not all) is from earlier,

2) there is solid Halachic basis for everything,

3) many things that are quoted are MISQUOTED or taken out of context.

This is not the proper forum to get into detail - like I wrote before - Go to a Chassidishe TALMUD CHOCHOM and you will either get real answers!!!

[The Moshiach Yechi issue is a different discussion].

MODERATOR Posted - 03 August 2001 18:31

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To give answers, first you have to understand the questions.

The issue is NOT that people do not sleep in a Sukkah - as you say, many people do not sleep in the Sukkah. Either because it's too cold, or because it's dangerous, or because they will be w/o their wives - all these are legitimate reasons, and probably that's why Lubavitcher Chasidim haven't slept in the Sukkah in Lubavitch. It was cold there.

The problem is, the Lubavitcher Rebbe said that Halachicly all Lubavitcher Chasidim - whether married or single, warm or cold, safe or unsafe - do not have to sleep in the Sukkah, not for any of the above reasons but simply because they are Lubavitcher Chasidim, and "Toras Chabad" brings the spiritual feelings into reality and the pain the Mitteler Rebbe felt by sleeping in the Sukkah needs to be felt by the Chassidim etc. etc.

Meaning, all other Jews in the world, including all other Chasidim, must sleep in the Sukkah. But for Lubavitcher Chasidim, it is a higher level if they don't! And indeed, they are not obligated to do so.

The problem is not the sleeping in the Sukkah - for that can be due to many reasons (if they apply) - the problem is the idea that there is a NEW exemption from sleeping in the Sukkah - not cuz of cold or danger or being separated form your wife - but simply because you are Chabad. Regardless of anything else.

No Chabad Rebbe ever said such a thing before.

Same thing for Shalosh Seudos. If the Rebbe Rashab wants to change the Minhag Chabad and hold like the poskim that say you can eat fruit, that's not a problem. The problem is the idea that you do not have to wash because imitating your Rebbe’s (even though the reason for their behavior does not apply to you) changes Halachic requirements.

Same thing with Mezuzah. If the Rebbe Rashab held like that (which we only have on record by unconfirmed reports), that’s not a problem. Maybe he had a reason, or maybe it was simply a mistake - remember - everyone can make a mistake, even the Maharal (see above). But if nobody knows what his reasoning is, and all poskim hold otherwise, then you either say I will follow my Rebbe even though I do not know why, or you will follow what you believe to be the truth.

The problem is, the Lubavitcher Rebbe doesn’t say that. He doesn’t say let's follow the Rashab blindly. He doesn’t even say the Rashab has anything to do with this halacha. He says to follow "Rishonim" who hold like that. Nobody is quoted, nothing in the footnotes, and nobody has any idea who these Rishonim are. That is clearly an error.

None of these questions have been answered by your post.

As far as a Chasidishe Talmid Chochom, what Chasidus? Ger? Belz? Satmar? Here we have it again, the notion that "Chasidish" and "Chabad" are the same thing.

Chasidishe Talmidei Chachamim will not defend this. This has nothing to do with Chasidus. Don’t try to make it look as if these questions are about Chasidim or Chasidus. They are not. They are about Chabad and Chabad only. And not even Chabad. Only about the last Rebbe, and him only. Every other Rebbe, Chabad or otherwise, have nothing to do with these problems.

So perhaps you can go to one of these "Chasidishe Talmidei Chachamim" and find the answers, then post them here.

I am waiting.