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LUBAVITCH-----and r avigdor miller

Truth Seeker Posted - 02 June 2003 19:14

May 30

The following is a transcript from #528 of R' Avigdor Miller's (ZT'L) Thursday night lecture series.

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V'hitsdiku es ha tsadik...that's a very great mitzvah-to speak-up for the just man and show that the accusations against him are unjustified. How false is everything that's said against the Jew. But not only what the nations say against the Jew, how false are the accusations that Jews make against Jews. If we study two kehilos:

Satmar and Lubavitch, we see how beautiful are these two kehilos.

Satmar is a beautiful kehila. I had personal contact many years with Satmar. I even spoke with the Satmarar Rov, the old one, zichrono l'vrocho. The new one I knew well, very well, but the old one I met personally once- at midnight in his home. I knew many of them personally. Satmar brought a new dimension to America.

There's another beautiful kehila called Lubavitch- I know them personally too. A Lubavitcher was once my Rebbe when I was a boy- I learned the entire mesichta Kesuovos with him- for nothing- he taught me for free.

And So I have a love for both of these kehilos. Sometimes- not in general- sometimes one of the people in these kehilos might say something against another one and we have to learn to disregard these words: 'V'hitsdiku es hastsadik'.

They are two kehilos of tzadikim- you must know that. When I say Satmar, I mean all of the Satmar kehilos- all of them. I don't mean each person is a tsadik gomor but in general, there's no question that the way of life is tsnius, Lubavitch- the way of life is tsnius. Satmar, they’re devoted to Avodas Hashem- they go all-out to serve
Hashem. Lubavitch- all-out to serve Hashem. No question about that.

They're not the only kehilos. I have plenty to say about the German kehila: I love that German kehila. As a boy, I davened every Shabbos in a German shul. I used to sit 4 hrs. Every afternoon- Shabbos afternoon-in a German shul.

These kehilos we have to appreciate, and all the things that are said against them we have to learn how to refute. ''V'hitsdiku es hastsadik'- that's our job- to justify the just. Not only to justify the just- to learn to appreciate all of their virtues, and there's plenty to appreciate.

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MODERATOR II Posted - 02 June 2003 20:05

Truth Seeker,

As mentioned earlier in this forum, Rav Miller ZTL was one of those who originally did hold of the Lubavitcher Rebbe to an extent - his exact words to the Talmidim in his Yeshiva were: "There is good and bad about Lubavitch". As an explanation of the Gemora that states "Great is vengeance, for it was placed between two names of Hashem, as it says 'Kail nekomas Hashem'", he used to say "If you see the Satmar Rav walking with the Lubavitcher Rebbe and someone is in between them, you know he is something special. (See the tape entitled "Kosher Revenge")

However, after the Moshiach business came out of the closet, he changed his position. The Lubavitcher Rebbe was no longer mentioned as an Odom Godol in any context; and that moshol for kail nekomas Hashm changed. He no longer used the Lubavitcher Rebbe, but whenever he said that vort, he would from then on use The Satmar Rav and Rav Moshe Feinstein (see the sefer "Toras Avigdor" where it is recorded in this way as well).

He also had a limud zechus on the Lubavitcher Rebbe: When his grandson asked him how he could attend the Lubavitcher Rebbe's funeral in view of the terrible things the Lubavitcher Rebbe said and did (even only standing outside, for he is a Kohen), his answer was that for the past 25 years the Lubavitcher Rebbe was not in his right mind and thus not responsible for what he said.

Rabbi Miller ZTL, like many others, looked at Chabad as an effective if imperfect Kiruv organization, with virtues and problems, like many other Kiruv organizations.

He was completely unaware, as were many others, of the deist and messianic philosophy that was going on all the time; the statements and teachings of the Rebbe that were against the Torah.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe explicitly instructed his Chasidim NOT to reveal to the world their teachings that would "not be accepted". Please see the story quoted above with the Lubavitcher Rebbe and Rabbi Wolpe.

They have been known to misrepresent themselves in order to be more accepted and liked by Rabbonim (see the letter quoted above by Debreciner Rav). That is their modus operandi.

The missing link in the Lubavitch list of people who are not against them is that nowhere to be found is someone who said, "I can defend what others have against Lubavitch".

For someone to say "I accept what the Lubavitcher Rebbe said, that a Rebbe is G-d in a body; that Lubavitchers (and only Lubavitchers) don’t have to sleep in a Sukkah; that the Alter Rebbe (or was it the Tzemach Tzedek?) was on a higher level of pnimuyus hatorah than Rav Yochanan ben Zakai; that the Bais Hamikdash will not be built in Egrets Israel but in 770 !yes he really said that) and then transported to Eretz Yisroel, since 770 is "the place of Moshiach" (yes, he said that too).

That they will not find. Because that does not exist.

BaronPhilip Posted - 03 June 2003 5:09

Not that our esteemed Moderator needs any corroboration, but I want to confirm what he said about Rav Avigdor Miller, zecher tzaddik livracha.

When R. Miller made those remarks about the last Lubavitcher Rebbe, he did NOT have all the facts. When, later, he found out what was going on at the top and at the core of the Lubavitcher movement, his position changed. Speak to ANYONE who knew R. Miller in the last decades of his life.

And, for that matter, people should realize that any modern-day posek, rosh yeshiva, mara d'asra, etc. who does not condemn the Lubavitch movement (it is very rare these days, but there are still one or two you might find) are simply UNAWARE of what Lubavitch is doing, and what the Rebbe had been saying in his sichos.

Take, for instance, the much maligned Rav Ahron Soloveitchik from Chicago, who is brought by unscrupulous Lubavitch liars as a supporter of the messianic garbage they believe in. You want to know what R. Ahron REALLY said?

The following is from an article in the December 2, 1994 issue of "The Forward"--just half a year after the Lubavitcher Rebbe died:

"I don't believe it. I don't believe it. It is incredible," Rabbi Soloveichik exclaimed when informed of the words of Rabbi Butman and others in Crown Heights about the imminent return of the Rebbe as Moshiach. The world-renowned rabbi said flatly that "there is no possibility whatsoever" that Menachem Mendel Schneerson would emerge from the dead to be the Messiah. "That could be possible in the Christian faith, but not Judaism.....Rabbi Soloveichik added that the mere suggestion that a dead individual would return as Moshiach is "repugnant to everything Judaism represents."...The late Rebbe, said Rabbi Soloveichik, "can't be the Messiah -- he is not living -- a Messiah has to be living -- a living Messiah, not a dead Messiah."

If you don't believe me, look it up yourself. The article was written in the December 2, 1994 issue of "The Forward" by reporter Lucette Lagnado, who had interviewed R. Ahron for the article. And get this: R. Ahron HIMSELF wrote a letter to the editor, printed three weeks later, saying that he had been quoted completely accurately!

But wait? We've all heard that R. Ahron Soloveitchik was opposed to attacking Lubavitchers, right? Well, there's a reason for that. Just read that letter R. Ahron wrote the Forward, in the December 23th issue. He says,

"Your distinguished correspondent quotes me correctly: The late Rebbe...can't be the Messiah...My complaint consists in the fact that...My intention was to relate my understanding that the overwhelming majority of the Lubavitcher Chasidim do not [sub]scribe to the notion that the Rebbe will be resurrected as the Messiah."

There it is, folks: R. AHRON SOLOVEITCHIK DEFENDED LUBAVITCH BECAUSE HE DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THE COMMUNITY MOSTLY BELIEVED THE REBBE WAS MOSHIACH. You see this IN HIS OWN WORDS, which I quoted exactly. Don't believe me? Look up these back issues of The Forward at any major library in the United States. And any Lubavitch "rabbi" who tells you that R. Ahron supported meshichistus is either ignorant, or is LYING THROUGH HIS TEETH. (I myself have met and debated the originator of this lie. For another day, though...)

Yet what are the real facts, the truth about Lubavitch? Just last week, a (sadly) Lubavitch acquaintance of mine told me that "every sincere Lubavitcher, including me, believes that the Rebbe is Moshiach".

The moral of the story? If you can find somewhere any rov of stature who still defends Lubavitch, just go and talk to him, and you will very quickly discover that this rov doesn't know what Lubavitch really is, and hasn't had a real, serious conversation with a Lubavitcher in decades.

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