ZIONISM-----misc

tovtovtov Posted - 22 October 2002 19:01

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Would you agree with me that being in the Holy Land, and praying at the Kotel is a great spiritual thing? That it is a mitzvah to be near the Holy of Holies?

If you accept that as being something at Jews world-over should do, then take a look at the modern state in this light: it is absolutely necessary for a modern state of Israel to exist for Jews to partake in praying at the Kotel.

In 1948, the Arab world invaded the hours-old state of Israel; in short, Israel kicked, except in the areas of the Golan, Sinai and Jerusalem [but we all know that this was taken care of in '67, but that's another story]. The Jordanians still had political control over Jerusalem, and especially the Old City. They forced all the Jews out of the Old City after the war in '48 and forbade all Jews from praying at the Kotel. The only way to remedy this situation was to gain political control over Jerusalem. Thus the 6-Day War of 1967 where this idea became reality.

The point is that, while I can accept that the modern State of Israel may not be what Hashem had in mind as a government for the time of the moshiach, it is necessary for Jews to have this modern political state so that they can perform various mitzvos. In short, the modern State is a political means to a spiritual end.

MODERATOR Posted - 08 November 2002 8:12

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tovtov,

The problem is, creating a Jewish State is assur, so whatever the benefits, we may not do it. If the Kosel was accessible only by driving on Shabbos, would that become OK? So, too, if Kosel access is only available through making a State, we must do without. Davening at the Kosel is a nice thing, but it is not a mitzvah at all, and certainly not an obligation. Yet not having a State is an obligation.

And of course, besides that, davening by the Kosel is far from worth the price of Jewish lives that maintaining the State costs. To save one single Jewish life - or even on the slim chance that we may save one single Jewish life - we would be mechaelel Shabbos 100 times. Hatzolah will drive, call, or do whatever is needed. A Jewish life is worth more than even Shabbos - or Kashrus, or Tefillin, or just about anything.

So to say that we should create an army, fight Arabs, have Jews killed and maimed in an average of 1 war every 10 years (not counting intifadas and terrorism) in order to daven by the Kosel is absurd. All the benefits of the State of Israel are not better than Shabbos and Kashrus. And Shabbos and Kashrus are not attainable if it costs a single Jewish life. There is absolutely no heter at all to pay the price in Jewish blood for all the benefits that the State of Israel offers - and that’s even if it were permitted, or beneficial to create the State.

And that point - that whatever benefits there are still does not make it worth the price in Jewish blood, as Jewish lives are more valuable than just about anything - is a claim that the Zionists have struggled to deal with, but for which they have not yet come up with a semblance of a decent answer.