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WOMEN-----making ha'motzei

shosh234 Posted - 09 May 2001 14:32

Have you ever heard of this minhag of the wife making ha'motzei on shabbos? is it mutar?

MODERATOR Posted - 09 May 2001 16:22

Hamotzi for the family? No such Minhag. Whether it is mutar depends on why she is doing it. If it because the husband cannot for whatever reason, it's OK. If it's because they want to give the woman "equal rights" then it may not be done.

shosh234 Posted - 10 May 2001 14:33

What are the possible reasons she would have to do it?

MODERATOR Posted - 10 May 2001 15:14

Maybe the husband doesn't know how....?

shosh234 Posted - 16 May 2001 13:57

In the first place why does the husband have to do it? why is it his chiuv, while something like hadlokos nerios is the wife's?

MODERATOR Posted - 16 May 2001 18:49

It is not officially the man's chiyuv, it is simply customary that he does it first.

shosh234 Posted - 20 May 2001 15:30

so if it’s 'simply customary' there are no halachic problems of her making ha'motzei??????

ptgard2281 Posted - 20 May 2001 15:33

So if it's a minhag for the man to do it, then what's the difference if there is a minhag for the woman to do it?

MODERATOR Posted - 20 May 2001 18:38

But there is no such Minhag on record. The Minhag across the board is the man does it. We can't just change Minhagim as we please. And the main thing to watch out is the motive. If it's in order to give women "equality" then it is Assur.

shosh234 Posted - 20 May 2001 23:30

wow! It’s assur to give women equality??? How can you say that? If there is no halachic issur involved, like in this case, what is so wrong? where does it say that it is assur for a woman to have equality????

MODERATOR Posted - 20 May 2001 23:54

It's Assur to think the Torah - or our Torah tradition throughout the generations - treats women wrong and therefore needs fixing.

It is Assur to think that the reason the Torah, or the Minhag, gives men certain jobs and women others, is due to anything but what is the proper, most beneficial, and most honorable role for each gender. Such ideas are taken from the Goyim, are anti-Torah, and have no basis in reality.

Women do not need to duplicate men's roles in order to attain "equality". All it does is make a mockery of individualism of men and women.

ptgard2281 Posted - 21 May 2001 8:58

Where did the minhag start off with the man? You mean to tell me that women did not have their own minhagim way back when? There must be some minhagim for women that men do also.

shosh234 Posted - 21 May 2001 8:59

But I still don’t understand. If it is not a man's role, because it is a minhag, not halachah, y does it matter so much? Whether or not it is correct, our society has been affected by the secular feminist movement.

If anything, in cases like this, the woman SHOULD be allowed to make ha'motzei, if she desires, because there is no actual halachic issur.

MODERATOR Posted - 21 May 2001 9:52


There is an actual issur in being affected by the secular feminist movement.


Sure women have their Minhagim. Such as lighting Shabbos candles, for instance. And therefore, unless there is no woman in the house, the wife always does it.

Beautman Posted - 07 June 2001 16:57

Mod- Can you give some sources for the issur in being affected by the secular feminist movement? I don't doubt this to be the case, I'd just like to look at them first hand.

MODERATOR Posted - 11 June 2001 18:02

Lo Sasuru Acharei Levavchem.

Says the Chinuch on the spot, and it is quoted by the Mishna Brura in Biur Halachah 1 (without attribution, however), any opinion someone has that disagrees with Daas Torah (i.e. the torah's opinion) causes you to violate this Laav.

The beliefs of the feminist movement regarding "equality of women" and what makes them equal (i.e. similar roles) clearly are in disagreement with the beliefs of the Torah.

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