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HALACHA-----tznius/ mixed swimming

m.u.g Posted - 18 January 2002 16:49

I was reading about the mixed gym thing which you said was assur.

Then how come so many frum ppl can go to the beach if there are only non-jews around.

I am told that you don't need to be tznius around non Jews.

MODERATOR Posted - 20 January 2002 20:34

You may not go mixed swimming even if the men are only Goyim. This is because of the Middah of Pritzus and lack of "booshah" that it involves.

See also Igros Moshe EH IV:62 where he says that even if its only a non-Jewish lifeguard (and no other men), even though he is not there for "pritzus" reasons, and we are assuming he will definitely not be involved in anything besides his lifeguarding work, still, G-d fearing women should not go there, because you never know what this one lifeguard may try.

So just imagine what the status is on a beach full of women-seeking goyim. No, you should not be involved in that.

anonymous2 Posted - 06 February 2002 15:30

I'm so glad to hear this being discussed, I always had issues with this. If its an issue of busha, why would one have busha, the whole beach is swarming with half clothed women- no man would look at one more than the other.

The goyim are surrounded by women dressed this way everyday- jewish men I can understand you cant walk around untzanua in front of because they're not allowed to look at "ervas isha" and you cant be "machti" them. But I don't get it with goyim. Especially women with unattractive bodies- what guy is gonna try anything with her when hes got a million "hot babes" on the beach.

MODERATOR Posted - 07 February 2002 18:00

The Middah of Booshah means that you should feel uncomfortable dressing that way in front of men. The fact that other women are dressed that way besides you does not change that. The idea behind the Booshah is that certain modes of dress are unbefitting of a Princess to appear in public. It doesn't matter that commoners are dressing that way. you should feel like you're undermining the status of Bas Melech. That applies when Goyim are around as much as Jews, regardless of who will or wont be "nichshal."

And the reality is that the other women on the beach don't change much of whats happening. You pass by a guy laying on the beach, he looks. Period. Even if he doesn't look twice, you still should feel embarrassed.

LovLe7 Posted - 11 March 2002 20:18

What if you don't wear s/t that's outright untznius but s/t that you wouldn't wear on a regular Sunday.

For example if you usually would only wear knee-length skirts with tights, but to the beach you wear a knee-length skirt w/o the tights. Your knees are still covered, but your not being machmir b/c it's the beach!

To reiterate the original question, is it worse to be seen by a yid untznius than a goy?

MODERATOR Posted - 13 March 2002 15:44

Yes, it is worse to be seen untzniukdik by a Yid than a goy, since you are presenting a michshal - an opportunity to do an aveirah - to the Yid.

If you dress on the beach in a Tzniusdik way, the same as you would in the street, then there is no problem.

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