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LUBAVITCH-----sukkah shalosh seudos mezuza etc 2

Shellshoked Posted - 28 November 2001 19:35


Moderator, I must tell you that there must be tons of Lubab teens “jumping ship” because of you. Lubavitch just started a number of very elaborate websites just to try and contradict what you say here! (I’m not going to write the addresses). They’re spending so much time and money to contradict you I guess you must be a tremendous threat to them. Even Rav Shach didn’t have that honor! I commend you for your work here. I don’t think anyone ever hit Chabad so hard as to make their own teenagers convert!

MODERATOR Posted - 28 November 2001 19:49


Thank you Shell, for your kind words. There is no difference between the anti-Torah ideas in today's Lubavitch and any other anti-Torah ideas. What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. I cannot help that, nor would I want to. My job is to answer questions honestly and according to the Torah. If that bothers the Lubavitchers, I can't do anything about it.

No More Lube Posted - 31 December 2001 2:35



I just came from some of the Lubav websites that were made against you. I can’t believe the ugliness that these people have inside them. They write that you’re a shaigetz and a fraud and a liar. The hate they carry for someone who does not like Lubavitch is disgusting. If you were not religious they would never call you such names, but if you don’t like Chabad then you’re a shaygetz.

I have a solution for you moderator, to get them to stop this ugliness - stop keeping shabbos and don’t put on tefillin then they’ll say you’re such a wonderful Jew. You know in Chabad they don’t use the phrase kiruv rechokim because non-religious Jews aren’t rechokim to them. But a religious Jew who doesn’t like Chabad is a shaygetz. I am sooo glad I am out of that hell hole. I can’t believe I was so brainwashed.

By the way, they tried to answer your questions about their problems but couldn’t. They even admitted to one lubab that asked about the sukkah, that if you don’t "feel the tzar" of sleeping in the sukkah you should sleep there. Which means that all the lubavitchers are wrong for not sleeping in the sukkah. Good work moderator, I can’t believe you got these people to admit they’re wrong.

MODERATOR Posted - 31 December 2001 15:39


Yeah, well, don’t worry about me. Im in good company. Considering what those people wrote about Rav Shach ZTL (they usually don’t even call him "Rav"), what you say they wrote about me is nothing. Actually, someone I know told me that he mentioned that "shaigetz" line to one of the Moderators on one of those sites (who he knows personally) and apparently it was edited out afterwards. I don’t really check, but whatever. They also stopped referring to this site as "frumteens" (they always change a letter or two in the spelling) cuz they’re scared that people will come here. Gosh. Get a life, yknow? Lol.

But anyway, their "answers" are just more distortions. It's a pity that their Rebbe taught them these things. Here are some examples of the official "answers" that Chabad has come up with for the claims against them by Gedolei Torah:

Not eating in a Sukkah: "Minhag mevatel din". That’s a quote. They claim that the Minhag in Chabad was not to sleep in a sukkah and the Rebbe merely "explained" it according to Halachah.

Of course, a Minhag cannot allow people to do what is prohibited or exempt you from a Mitzvah. The Gemora says this in Rosh Hashanah 16b and it is all over the poskim, not that it takes any great scholarship to understand this for it is quite obvious. (The Reform and Conservative movement would love this "psak" from these Lubavitchers. What people do permits you to not do Mitzvos! Wow.) Minhag Mevatel Halachah applies either to monetary customs only, or l'chumrah etc. but never, ever to violate a mitzvah.

That’s first of all. But it appears they didn’t understand the objection, or didn’t want to. I have said here numerous times the problem is not that they do not sleep in the sukkah per se, for that can be explained according to the already established reasons for such behavior. Like it's cold out, or if your wife remains in the house you don’t have to sleep in the sukkah etc. The problem is the explanation that the Rebbe gave for it. In other words, let’s say the Rebbe would say that the reason Lubavitchers do not sleep in a Sukkah is because Lubavitch has authority, by virtue of their pinched hats, to decide that they don’t have to bother with whatever Mitzvos they don’t like. Of course, that would be Kefirah, and saying "well what do you mean, Lubavitchers haven’t slept in the sukkah for generations before the Rebbe" would not help, since it’s the explanation that is the heresy, not the act.

And so, even though I explained numerous times that the problem here mainly is the Rebbe's explanation, they still continue to respond that Lubavitchers didn’t sleep in the Sukkah way before the Rebbe. Yes, but nobody ever attributed that to what their last Rebbe did. Namely, that Lubavitchers - and only Lubavitchers - are exempt from sleeping in the Sukkah because, since the Mitteler Rebbe said he had a hard time sleeping in the Sukkah cuz the Shechinah is there and he cant sleep with the shechinah - so all Lubavitcher Chasidim have "tzar" that they are not on the same level as their Rebbe and that Tzar exempts them from the Sukkah.

Of course, this is nonsense. You can’t tell people who sleep comfortably in the Sukkah that the reason they should not sleep there is because they have Tzar. They simply don’t have the Tzar. Like, let them try to sleep in the Sukkah and see how many of them suffer cuz they’re not on the level of the Mittleler Rebbe. The whole thing is a joke. And that's just "l'shitoso" - even if you accept the garbled Halachic reasoning. Yet in Chabad, this is what exempts them from a Mitvzah D'Oraisah. And then they want to know why people are against their Rebbe when he teaches such things?

Then they claim that it is impossible that the reason for their not sleeping in the Sukkah in Lubavitch, Russia was due to the cold - after all, didn’t (some) of those chasidim go to the mikveh in ice water? So surely they would sleep in the sukkah in the cold as well!

Ah, no. If you go to the Mikveh in the cold and suffer during your Tevilah, you successfully accomplished the purity that going to the Mikveh provides. Your suffering does not reduce the benefit of going to the Mikveh - on the contrary - your mesiras Nefesh enhances it. But Sukkah has a special Halachah that Mitz'taer Patur, meaning, if you have to suffer, you no longer have Mitzvah to sleep there. You accomplish nothing if you sleep in the Sukkah while suffering, but you do accomplish if you go to the Mikveh.

I mean, first the Lubavitcher Rebbe says the reason why all Lubavitcher Chasidim do not sleep in the Sukkah is because of the exemption of Mitz'taer, then they say that it is unthinkable that Lubavitcher Chasidim would forgo a Mitzvah because of Tzar. Ouch.

They also claim that the Mitteler Rebbe chased Chasidim out of the Sukkah, because how can you sleep with the shechinah like that, which shows he not want them to sleep there, even in those days.

Please. If that is true, then the Lubavitcher Rebbe certainly is wrong, since obviously those Chassidim who he supposedly chased out of the Sukkah were obviously not "mitz'taer" from the Shechinah (which was the Mitteler Rebbes' complaint) yet he didn’t want them to sleep there anyway And the Lubavitcher Rebbe says the only reason the shechinah exempts someone from sleeping in the Sukkah is because they are Mitz'taer. And even if the Mitteler Rebbe was complaining why aren’t they Mitztaer, so long as they can sleep in the Sukkah without Tzar, they are obligated to do so.

The same thing with the Shalosh Seudos - it’s not the Minhag that’s the problem - there are poskim who hold you do not have to wash for shalosh seudos. It's the explanation that since in the past there were Rebbes who had the status of "cholim" during shalosh seudos because they could not stand to eat during such a holy time, therefore, today, we should imitate the Rebbes and not wash for shalosh seudos even though we do not have the status of cholim. So in other words, the previous Rebbes held that Halachicly you should wash for shalosh seudos but they were personally exempt due to their "status", whatever. But to change your Halachic opinion - the Halachic opinion that these Rebbes themselves had - because you want to imitate the Rebbes outside behavior, even though the status does not apply to you is 100% wrong.

I wonder what these Chasidim would do if their Rebbe was so sick he would eat on Yom Kippur?

Then there is the issue of Rav Yochanon ben Zakai. There is the matter of the outrageous and unacceptable statement that the Baal HaTanya was on a higher level than Rav Yochanoan ben Zakai since he (the Baal HaTanya) leaned Pnimiyus HaTorah and Rav Yochanan ben Zakai did not (I'm not kidding, they really say this), came from the Tzemach Tzedek and not the last Rebbe.

Unfortunately, if they learned the Gemora they would see differently. The Gemora tells a story of Rav Yochanan ben Zakai on his deathbed. His students came to visit him, and he remarked: "I don’t know in what direction they will take me - to Gan Eden or to Gehinnom."

the Meforshim explain that RYB"Z was worried that after he dies, he will no longer have control over his students' actions, and if they (the students) go the wrong way, or misrepresent his teachings, the Rebbi (RYB"Z) will be responsible, and the students will have shlepped him into Gehinnom. That is why he made this statement only upon the arrival of his students, only upon his deathbed.

Then there is the story of the Baal HaTanya, who was approached by a Chosid asking for help. The Baal HaTanya said "To me you’re coming for help? You don’t even know the way to my Gan Eden."

The tzemach Tzedek, present at the time, commented, "This is higher than what Rav Yochanaan ben Zakai said - for RYB"Z said he didn’t know if he was going to gan eden, and here the Alter Rebbe said he does know."

Well, no big deal. RYB"Z's statement only applies when someone is about to die and leave over Talmidim who can mess him up after his death. The Baal HaTanya was not yet in that position, so of course he, at that point, was sure of his Gan Eden. RYB"Z was, too, when he was alive and well. When the Baal HaTanya will have been on his deathbed, he, too, will be in the same position as RYB"Z.

Whatever it was that did not allow RYB"Z to see the future of his "gan eden" after his death, also applied to the Baal Hatanya all the more so.

No big deal. Now comes the Lubavitcher Rebbe and says that the Baal HaTanya was on a higher level in general than RYB"Z because RYB"Z did not learn Pnimiyus HaTorah and the Alter Rebbe did.

Ah, no. That's not what happened here. But that’s what the Lubavitcher Rebbe said. Te statement of the Tzemach Tzedek can be explained without much surprise, but the statement of the Lubavitcher Rebbe Rabbi Shneerson is outrageous and in any other circles.

Unfortunately, Rabbi Shneerson did not tell them what the Gemora is talking about, and left them without the knowledge of why RYB"Z said that. The impression he gave his chasidim was that RYB"Z just plain had no idea what was flying. But that’s not the case.

And then there is the issue of the Rebbe claiming that Rebbes are "the self and essence of G-d in a body" (Atzmuso umahuso). Their answer is, well, Moshe Rabbeinu also said that he would "give rain" didn’t he? So you see that a Tzadik is in G-d's place!

Whatever that means. Nobody ever said that Moshe Rabbeinu was G-d's essence in a body. Chas v'sholom! A Tzadik is the conduit of Hashem's shefa into this world, that’s not new - it says it both in numerous places - and more than that is not necessary to explain Moshe. But the Lubavitcher Rebbe asked a question: Why do we pray to a Rebbe if we can pray directly to Hashem? Isn’t a Rebbe just a g-between when we can go directly? His answer is that the Rebbe is not a go-between since a Rebbe is atzmuso umahuso alein - G-d Himself - vi ehr hut zich areingeshtlelt in a guf - placed in a human body. (Likutei SIchos vol. 2 p.511)

And then they want to know what people have against their Rebbe.

And then there is their problems with Rav Yosi bar Kisma, who refused to move out of his Makom Torah. They claim that Kiruv is more important than this. But the point is, Rav Yosi bar Kisma could have done Kiruv in the town that wanted him - he was actually invited there by them, we assume not to be their fire chief - and nevertheless he refused since it wasn’t a Makom Torah. Of course, they say that the Lubavitcher Rebbe claimed that the people of that town wanted RYB"K to learn for them, meaning, instead of them, rather than influence them. And of course, all the commentaries see it differently than the Lubavitcher Rebbe, and that chant be pshat because RYB"K did not mention a hint of that in his explanation as to why he refuses to go there.

And finally, they claim that their Kiruv efforts in Puerto Rico and other non-Mekomos HaTorah are not. as I claim, due to the Rebbe's desire to fulfill Moshiach's statement to the Baal Shem Tov that he (Moshiach) will some if the Baal Shem Tov's Torah will be spread, but rather because of the Mitzvah of Tochachah etc.

Unfortunately, not only do they not know Hilchos Sukkah or Aiyn Yaakov, they do not know their own Rebbe's teachings. The Lubavitcher Rebbe himself said this. In "HaChai Yitain El Libo", a collection of theRebbe's talks with those who came to be menachem avel him when he was sitting shiva, he stated to one of the visitors regarding the "taanos" against his Kiruv methods, that "from the taanos themselves you can see how important they (the kiruv methods) are ... but the main thing is, through this (Kiruv methods) it brings Moshiach, as Moshiach told the Baal Shem Tov in the letter to Rav Gershon Kittever etc."

Of course, they edited out what the taanos against the Kiruv methods were, and how "from the taanos themselves you can see how important it is", even though it was their Rebbe talking. Hiding their opponent’s real positions is par for the course in Chabad.

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