CHIZUK-----for extreme nisayon
bmbivalence Posted - 05 May 2002 18:47
I'm not a teen, but I've been dealing with issues since I was one. Basically, I'm a bm guy attracted to teen boys. In my past, I molested a few. Most of my former victims have forgiven me, some haven't. I have learned some self-control since then, and avoid situations where I can hurt people.
The thing is, I'm not a vicious, mean person. I'm a nice guy. And yet I have hurt people when I didn't mean to- I just snapped and lost control. It was me, but I wasn't in control.
For those who have never lost control, let me describe it- your rational mind is in the background, yelling at you to stop, but your animalistic instincts have taken over, and you molest someone you loved and still love. They hate you, and rightly so.
You feel guilty and depressed because
1) you hurt someone you loved,
2) they hate you now, and they meant so much to you- being attracted to boys mean you fall in love with them as if they were women, and breaking up is just as painful
3) The torah says misa, yehoreg v'al ya'avor, etc.
4) Everyone who finds out hates you- you are an evildoer who must be banished and deserves no mercy.
I have learned to avoid camps and I don't dorm, even though I'm still in yeshiva. There are still teen boys who I love, the risk is minimal, but it's there, lurking in my subconscious- will I hurt someone I care for yet again?
My questions:
1) The Jewish lifestyle is one where someone who is attracted to boys will be guaranteed to fail. Between camps, dorm yeshivas, mikvahs, and the discouragement of outlets like talking to girls. Why would G-d create a situation where ppl are guaranteed to fail?
I don't like hurting ppl, I don't like being a monster, and yet I hurt the ppl I love. My inner turmoil is tremendous, the social stigmas are overwhelming, and every so often I get the urge to leave Yiddishkeit behind- an emotional urge, since I have been doing a lot of learning on he Hashkafa issues, but it's there.
What could be the positive about being in this situation? It can't be to help the ones I love, since I must avoid any situations where I have power and influence, or risk hurting yet more kids.
2) Related to the first Q- G-d tells Job that nobody was created to be a rasha b/c "barasi yetzer hara, barasi torah tavlin". Is this in absolute or relative terms? If someone is born with an attraction to boys, he is almost guaranteed to fail, since he'll never ask for help and be stigmatized, and/or he'll never admit to himself he has a problem.
MODERATOR Posted - 06 May 2002 16:00
You speak about “the discouragement of outlets like talking to girls”, which tells me that your attraction is to both genders.
If this is so, there is light at the end of the tunnel. You should keep in mind always that one day soon (and my advice is to make it as soon as realistically appropriate) you will have your outlet. Then the battle with your Yetzer Horah in this area will be easier to resist.
If my understanding is not correct, and even if it is, your situation until you are married, is an incredibly painful Nisayon. The "positive" in this situation is that our purpose in this world - our sole purpose - is to be Omed B'nisayon (Mesilas Yeshorim). And the rule is, l'fum tzaara
Throughout history, our people have been beset with unspeakable Nisyonos - from starvation to persecution, shmad, and concentration camps r"l. Hashem asks of us only that we fight as hard as we can. Out level of righteousness is determined not by which Nisyonos we have, and not by how easily we succeed in beating them, or even how often we succeed, but by how hard we fight.
The harder you fight, the bigger a Tzadik you are.
The Yetzer Horah is a sparring partner for us. He tries to knock us down, but hopes that we are skillful enough to beat him. The more skillful a fighter is, the harder the sparring partner he gets. Sometimes, you can get put in the ring and get frightened to death when you look at the monster of an opponent that G-d put you in the ring with.
But we have to know that G-d is always with us. He wants us to put in our best effort, and then He provides siyata d'shmaya.
In Olam Habah - where the Real World is revealed and the illusory materialistic darkness of Golus is lifted - your preference or orientation will not matter; there will be no difference in this aspect between you and Moshe Rabbeinu. the only thing that will be "seen" about you is how much you fought the Yetzer Horah. If you put in effort equal to Moshe, you will be as big a Tzadik as Moshe.
We are here in this world for only a limited amount of time. We will be in the next world for millions and millions of years - and longer. Forever.
By that time, we will have long forgotten what the details of the Nisyonos we had on this world were. What will count for eternity is how much we fought them.
You have been given a frightful opponent to fight. The more effort you put into fighting it, the more of a Tzadik you are. Others have not been given such a Yetzer. Even if they beat their own, less difficult Yetzers, they will not be able to rise to the level that you can by fighting your, more difficult one.
You are dealing with this the right way - staying away form Nisyonos and at the same time fighting the ones that you encounter. Hashem should give you strength to continue your battle. I suspect that, one day, we will all be jealous of your place in Olam Habbah.
That having been said, it is worthwhile to pursue what is called "reparative therapy". check this out: http://www.narth.com/docs/repair.html). I would suggest calling Dr. Norman Goldwasser in
That having been said, please understand that there are people "out there" who would try to convince you that your situation is not merely a Nisayon but an identity and that you are not "cut out" for your community or your lifestyle etc etc etc. There are those who will even tell you that there are three genders. Male, female, and homosexual.
Ignore all of this. It does not come from Torah, but from the "Other Side". Even if you hear it from a frum person do not fall into the trap of ever considering such a thing.
Your situation says nothing about your identity. It says something about your Nisyonos. That’s all.
As far as Barasi Torah tavlin, please believe me when I say you can go for help. If you want to speak to a Rav I would suggest Rav Mattisyahu Solomon of
What you need most is chizuk to fight the Yetzer Horah, and encouragement not to ever think for a second, that your situation means anything but that Hashem has given you a huge sparring partner in Olam Hazeh. There is no intrinsic difference between you and anyone else.
ohmygosh Posted - 08 May 2002 17:08
Thanks for that mod. but what about me? Am I supposed to be doing something for myself? Because I don't think I'm that bad, just that sometimes I wonder why I'm not normal like everyone else...
MODERATOR Posted - 15 May 2002 5:33
If Hashem made you a certain way, then that’s His Will, not some kind of accident or mistake. It means you were chosen for whatever reason for this particular nisayon.
As I said, in a while - in Olam Habbah - you will be as "normal" as Moshe Rabbeinu. It how you respond to your Nisyonos that counts. Not what they are.
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