LUBAVITCH-----but my family is lubavitch
QueenMalka Posted - 15 June 2001 23:23
Mod,
I'm confused, and I thought I was the only one, except I see that Shira also is in the same boat as me. I come from a Lubavtich family and all my life I learned one way and now you're saying that I was wrong all my life?
I showed my parents your posts, and my rabbi (who is Lubavitch) too, and they (first my parents) just got angry and said you're just anti-Lubavitch and are biased and prejudiced, but then I said that's nice, but what about his proofs, they said the Rebbe knows more than some stupid moderator.
So I said but you're telling me to blindly follow the Rebbe but he is giving me proofs, and you're not answering them.
Then they said that they don't need answers because the Rebbe was the biggest Ohev Yisroel and it’s just sinas chinam and loshon horah not to listen to him. But I see that they don’t have a clue how to answer the posts.
Also my rabbi too didn't want to even discuss it he just said you're a misnagid and even the bal shem tov had people against him so it proves nothing.
But obviously they don’t have a clue how to answer you and I've come to the realization that they're just following without knowing why and now I'm totally confused because I live in a Lubavitch home and I was brought up this way and I don't think I believe in it anymore, and it's so dumb because I'm crying because my parents are such great people but they're so brainwashed about Lubavitch and I have to live here and I love them but it bothers me that they don't see the truth.
I hope I'm not prattling Moderator what do I do? Help???????
Shirah!!!! How are you handling this????
Punims Posted - 19 June 2001 13:08
chumbo, I know it hurts you to read all this. I come from a Lubavitch family and it hurts them too.
However, if you think the moderator is TOTALLY wrong and all that, can you answer him? I think he brought in real truthful proofs.
A lot of Lubavitch ppl out there are reading this and then getting all aggravated and saying the moderator is wrong, BUT PROVE IT!!!
It’s very hard for us to believe that he's wrong if you have no clue why he's wrong.
And chilled, if there is an answer, where is it???? I’m waiting and waiting for someone to prove that the moderator is wrong and that my parents and my whole past is not a lie but NOBODY has come up with some real answers yet.
And last but not least, the moderator is NOT AGAINST LUBAVITCH. The moderator here is stating a few facts that he has found to be against the Torah.
If anyone out there can prove him wrong, I’m sure he'll be willing to listen.
In the moderator's forum, most of the facts that he stated happened ONLY AFTER THE LAST REBBE.
The moderator never said anything about the other rabbaim, so here I think that proves that all this "halachic wronging" as you can call it, only happened after the last Rebbe.
And I know all Lubavitch ppl out there will say "LIES, THAT’S NOT TRUE." ok, now if you think that.... PLEASE PLEASE LET US KNOW WHY!!
It really really gets annoying when ppl just post and post about how wrong everybody against Lubavitch is.....PROVE IT!
MODERATOR Posted - 19 June 2001 17:42
Queen,
There are many families where the children decide on a different derech than the parents. If you remain frum (of course) and become a ben Torah, your parents should be thankful, even if you are not Chabad. The thing is, in the meantime, you must live peacefully with them, do not argue with them, and as the Halachah is regarding all Jews, including parents, do not correct them on something they will not listen to you about, even if you do it in a very respectful manner.
I don't know if your parents are Baalei Teshuva, but it is often very difficult for people, especially with the Chabad chinuch, to see that their lives are not being lived in the best way. Rav Chaim Shmuelevitz ZT"L says that this was the greatness of the sage Shimon Ha'Amsuni, who spent his life deriving Halachos from every instance of the word "es" in the Torah.
When he hit a roadblock in the posuk "es hashem elokechah tirah" - what else besides Hashem can we possibly be afraid of? - He was ready to chuck his entire life's work of "es" derivations. For if there is one posuk where nothing can be derived from the "es" it disproves his entire theory.
His whole life's work was going to go down the drain.
Until Rabi Akiva came and saved his career, by explaining that Talmidei Chachamim also must be feared.
But here we have a sage, a Tanna, who could raise the dead in a second, ready to throw out his whole life's work because he had a question he couldn't answer. That proved him wrong.
And he wouldn't return to the work until the question was answered.
That's greatness, says Rav Chaim Shmuelevitz. For a person to realize their entire life's ideas were a mistake, and be big enough to admit it.
It can happen to the best of us, and we should thank Hashem that He showed us the right path.
Maybe it’s actually b'zchus all the searching you did and efforts you put into your religion that Hashem gave you a new revelation. The Yismach Moshe explains Chazal: Yagati Umatzasi Taamin - "I worked hard and then found results" - saying that "finding" something is not the same as working for it. Meaning, even though you worked hard on your growth, in the end, b'zchus your work, you may "find" the rewards somewhere you never expected them to be.
So follow what you know is the truth. One day you will be married and then you will follow your husband's Minhagim. In the meantime, be peaceful, respectful, and honorable to your parents, because, bottom line, if it weren't for their upbringing, you probably wouldn't be frum in the first place. And it is considered a zechus for them that, despite their expectations, because of their bringing you up religious, their daughter chose the right path.
You are not harming your parents by choosing what you know to be right, you are giving them a very very big Zechus.
MODERATOR Posted - 19 June 2001 18:27
Punims,
As you correctly said, the problems with Lubavitch have nothing to do with Lubavitch Chassidus, but rather with the past generation of new innovations and changes in the real Chabad traditions and philosophies.
The minhagim and Halachic opinions you mentioned are all listed in the Rav Shulchan Aruch (and/or the Siddur Ari), which is what Chabad used to follow.
There it says to sleep in the Sukkah, for instance, and it is only the past Lubavitcher Rebbe that changed what was the Chabad Halachic ruling (and every other posek in the world without a single solitary exception) for generations.
So in the meantime, you should follow your parents' minhagim, where they are not against Halachah. Meaning, you must sleep in the Sukkah (if you are a man), and you must eat Shalosh Seudos (even if you are a woman). The Rav Shulchan Aruch rules that you must wash for Shalosh Seudos also, unless it is not possible for some reason, in which case you may rely on the poskim that permit eating fruits etc.)
But the legitimate Chabad Minhagim that are not against Halachah, those which Lubavitch has been following for generations, you should follow, since those are the Minhagim of your parents (i.e. Minhag HaMakom). Your Minhagim (the legitimate ones) have nothing to do with whether you believe in contemporary Chabad theology or not.
When you get married, you will follow your husband's minhagim.
Note: Even in cases where Chabad is against Halachah, you should make sure to follow the torah in a way that will not cause strife in your home. You are not obligated to tell your parents that you are eating Shalosh Seudos, for example, on a long Shabbos afternoon, you can simply wash before Minchah and have your own little "meal" which will fulfill your obligation for Shalosh Seudos. Then, you can eat with your family their regular Shalosh Seudos, if they eat it at all. That way, you can fulfill the real Lubavitch Halachic ruling to eat bread at Shalosh Seudos.
If you can't do this, you can rely on the poskim that permit fruits. You can rely on these poskim if you have no way to eat chalah without causing fights with your parents. There are legitimate poskim that hold you don’t have to wash, even though the majority - including the Alter Rebbe - hold you should wash.
But in any case, remember that it is not harmful to your parents, but rather a tremendous Zechus for them, that their daughter (or son) is following the Torah. This is true regardless of their errors.
Also, do not judge your parents at all, certainly do not judge them harshly. If they are Baalei Teshuva from Lubavitch you do not know what you would believe if you were subject to the same narrow educational system that they were. You can't judge anyone till you've been in their place, and it could be that if some of us people had our parents' nisyonos while growing up, we would not even be frum today! The fact that they are frum is amazing and their eternal merit.
But that does not mean if they are mistaken we should follow their mistakes. One of the things they merited, perhaps, due to their great struggle to be frum, is to have children who will not repeat their errors.
That's a great Zechus. Don't take it away from them. Do what's right.
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