For an enlarged, easier to read index click here . To "google search" this site, scroll to the bottom of this page. (This site is best viewed with "Firefox")

(Tips: F11 key enables full screen viewing & Ctrl-F to search the index)


HASHKOFO-----lack of re deviant movements

Punims Posted - 24 November 2003 8:41

Thanks for the article. Except, bringing them here doesn't really do anything.. ok we read them - but does anybody listen to us afterwards?

See, I'm confused, not about Lubavitch - about my status with Lubavitch. All around me, people are saying "Oh, so I take it you want a Lubavitch boy" and if I answer, "No, actually I'm anti-Lubavitch", they give me an entire speech about you're never allowed to say 'Anti' about anything Jewish.

But if I give them the argument about, "Can you say you're anti Jews for J?" they give me this huge disbelief and go 'Chas v'sholom! That's a whole different thing!'

Why does nobody understand this?? Do you realize how many speeches I've gotten about loving every Jew, respecting them even if you don't believe in them? Where does this come into the whole picture?

Plus, if I even start up by saying, "No but you haven't read anything, I've looked into it." They, "Oh yeah, what'd you read and where?"

You can't just summarize why there is a reason to be against Lubavitch in one sentence... and plus I can't go telling people I saw it on the Internet.

It's just so complicated and most Jews don't even realize why people are so against it. They just shake their heads and say, "It's so sad how families can be broken over this. Why can't everyone just love each other? Ok, so there are wackos in Lubavitch, but so does all chassidim have their wackos..."

Very nice, but you don't KNOW - the wackos are from what the Rebbe taught! And there's no point in even saying this, they look at me - shake their heads and say, "you're just confused." Blech.

Speaking of - my brother got married with the Rebbe's psak. There IS such a thing has koach hatumah, right? Like fortune cookies and stuff.

Cuz my brother lives by the Rebbe's answers - and they're always right and my parents look at me and say "See?"

MODERATOR Posted - 24 November 2003 9:07


You’re hanging around with the a specific type of crowd. Most of the world will understand perfectly when you say you are anti-Lubavitch. In fact, they would cringe if you said you are pro. It's obvious that this shadchan or whoever it was was pro-Lubavitch, and this was her backhanded way of saying "Lubavitch is legitimate, you can’t be against it."

While I understand that since you’re from a Lubavitcher family, your family friends and acquaintances will be if not Lubavitch, definitely not anti, please do not think the whole world shares the views of those Lubavitch sympathizers.

As far as whether anybody will listen to us - the answer is, the "us" grew dramatically in the past few years here on this site, didn’t it? There are a number of people on this site who are no longer Lubavitch because of what they see.

The truth always has an effect. Not immediately perhaps, not on those who reject it, perhaps, but it does have an effect.

And are you yourself not the biggest proof of that?

Punims Posted - 19 December 2003 16:06

No actually I find that it's only rabbaim that have this view. I'm not talking about Lubavitch people.. any frum person. Like chassidim for example, if they never read anything about Lubavitch or against Lubavitch, how're they supposed to know anything?

And even if they agree with me, that Lubavitch is wrong, they have no clue why, they're just spewing what their parents have taught them.

If you're not Lubavitch, why should you even look into it? People like to just leave it alone and stay out of controversies.

Which comes down to, that I've never met another person that actually knew what they were saying on the Lubavitch topic.

MODERATOR Posted - 19 December 2003 16:53

The problem isn’t lack of knowledge about why Lubavitch is wrong per se - its lack of knowledge about why any deviant movement is wrong. Ask the average Orthodox Jew what was wrong with the Maskilim, for instance, and they probably won’t know. All they will know is that the Torah authorities declared their movement taboo.

And honestly, since hayom katzer v'hamelachah merubah, you really can’t fault them for spending their time on learning shas for instance, rather than analyzing the psak of the Gedolim regarding the Maskilim. Of course it’s good to know, especially if you’re in the business of de-confusing confused Orthodox Jews and de-programming programmed Orthodox Jews, but to most people, the details simply don’t matter.

To the average Joe, Lubavitch is taboo because the Gedolim said it is. They look to the Gedolim for guidance, and they see that to the ainei haedah, Lubavitch is off the derech, and that’s all they need to know. And that’s pretty much what they know about most issues. It's not great, true, but the issue is not lack of knowledge about Lubavitch, its lack of knowledge period.

Ask the average Orthodox Jew what’s wrong with Zionism and when the dust clears it will boil down to him not knowing but the Gedolim being against it. Same thing with most things in the world.

You’re right. Of course people should know more. But on the list of things they must know, which includes like how to keep Shabbos properly, and why Hashem cares if they are frum, and how to be a proper parent, the reasons for the Gedolim's position against Lubavitch is not near the top. And they simply don’t get to it.

It’s not really that important for most -- they know that Lubavitch is wrong, and they have good reason to believe that - that is, the Torah authorities rules that way. And just as they have no idea why the Maskilim were rejected, and they have no idea why they can’t have mixed seating at a wedding, they are equally uneducated as to the whys and wherefores of the problems with the Lubavitcher Rebbe.

Of course, I think we pretty much covered the main issues on this site, and until anyone comes close to answering them (don’t hold your breath), you now know WHY the Tzadikim were so against the Lubavitcher Rebbe and his group.

No comments: