For an enlarged, easier to read index click here . To "google search" this site, scroll to the bottom of this page. (This site is best viewed with "Firefox")

(Tips: F11 key enables full screen viewing & Ctrl-F to search the index)


CHIZUK-----to one with homosexual tendencies


jonle1 Posted - 18 October 2000 14:28

I am a 19 year old freshman college student in a Florida college.

To get right to the point, I am gay, and I have known this since I was in 8th grade. Leviticus 18:22 "No man shall lie with another man, as he shall lie with a woman." The Tanakh says that well being gay is forbidden.

But how can G-d forbid being gay, if it is natural, in which it is, because if I had a choice, I would be very much straight, but it is not a choice.

Also, why would any one want to live this life, it is hard. Therefore, I see this as being a gift from G-d, after all, my name, Jonathan means a Gift from G-d, because G-d is well G-d, and does not flaw, and He made me this way. I just want to know why then this is written? Thank you

MODERATOR Posted - 18 October 2000 14:59

The Torah does not say "being" gay is forbidden. It says committing gay sex act is forbidden. There is a big difference. You are not responsible for who you are or how you feel - which you cannot control. But you cannot act on those feelings - and your actions you can control.

It is terribly painful and difficult, granted, but if celibacy is the only alternative to abomination, then celibacy it is.

The way our life in this world works is, Hashem gives us tests ("nisyonos"), and we must pass them. To the extent that we pass then, then we merit eternal happiness. Vice versa for failure.

None of us are perfect. Nobody passes everything. But we must try to pass everything.

Your homosexual tendencies are a Nisayon (test). An excruciatingly difficult Nisayon, true, but a Nisayon nonetheless. If you abstain from the urge to commit abomination, you merit reward beyond all imagining, that will last forever.

According to the principle of "l'fum tzaarah agrah" - according to the effort is the reward - your reward will be beyond imagining, much greater that the rewards of those Nisyonos that can be avoided through lesser struggles.

What G-d has given you here ("Yonasan" means "G-d has given". The term "gift" is a bit interpretive) is an opportunity for unfathomable reward by STRUGGLING against abomination.

Our Nisyonos are like sparring partners for us. Their purpose in fighting against us is to make us stronger. You have a very skilled sparring partner, but you must always remember that our goal via a vis our sparring partner is to defeat him. The goal is NOT to get floored.

PS - The Tanach is only one part of the Torah. The Oral Torah - Talmud and Midrash and Halachah - is an equally authoritative component.

It's a Christian thing to refer to verses in Chumash as "the Tanakh says...", since they ignore the existence of the rest of the Torah. Jews would say "The Torah says".

1WhoCares Posted - 31 October 2000 16:33

I have a question. What are the exact implications of this halacha?

You say that a man who is aroused by other men cannot kiss or hug another man... what about shomer negiah?

Another question: How does all of this apply when it comes to women? Women are naturally more passionate and more "touchy" with their close friends... but if arousal is a possible factor... is that a problem? Is it an aveira?

MODERATOR Posted - 31 October 2000 17:34

Female-female sex acts are forbidden by Torah law under "maaseh eretz mitzrayim."

But the laws of this prohibition have different details than male-male sex. The commonplace "touchiness" between girls would not be prohibited, arousal notwithstanding.

jenny Posted - 01 December 2000 16:48

moderator: what do you mean arousal non withstanding?

MODERATOR Posted - 01 December 2000 16:51

It means "regardless of whether or not the touch causes arousal."

MJ Posted - 05 January 2001 18:31

Is there a din of yichud by gay guys?

Also is a gay guy allowed to be alone with another guy alone?

I would say this is ok since the gezaira of yichud was not made for them.

Is that correct?

MODERATOR Posted - 05 January 2001 18:33

There is a din of Yichud by gay guys. the Shulchan Aruch (Even Haezer 24) says that where homosexuality is prevalent you must avoid Yichud even with a guy.

Me Posted - 07 January 2001 20:12

I'm so confused as to why Hashem created some ppl gay... it ruins their life it's not like if they had a choice it would be to be gay.

It's a life where ppl look at them like there pigs and aliens and a good yeshiva bachur can have the greatest midos but will be scorned b/c he was born with a nature of being gay and he can't help it.

Would he ever be able to get married and live a normal life... I don't know do gay ppl get married too often does it ever happen? I wouldn't know b/c I don't know any gay ppl but it makes me sad that such ppl have to live a miserable life w/o choice

MODERATOR Posted - 07 January 2001 22:08

Being gay is an excruciating Nisayon. Why Hashem give it to people is no different than asking why Hashem gave people the Nisayon of being in a concentration camp, or starving in Siberia, or being born with AIDS or some other terrible sickness.

I went to Yeshiva with a guy who had Elephant Man's Disease (neurofibromatosis). He was horribly disfigured, to the point where it was almost impossible to look at him without recoiling in horror.

Believe it or not, he got married and had kids. He died very young, leaving a wife and orphans l"a. Who can imagine the pain that this guy went through all his life?

So your question is a good one, but we ought to no more wonder about this particular Nisayon than any other in the world.

One thing is for sure, though. This word is only temporary - we live only 120 years.

When that's over, we're going to be around for million and millions of years, for eternity, and then whatever pain we went through in this world we will be compensated for in the next world such that we will not be unhappy that for such a little time during our live - the time we were in this physical world - G-d gave us the pain.

It's like when a company takes money off your paycheck and invests it in their stock. Your wife may complain that you didn't bring home as much money as you could, but when the stock goes through the roof, the only complaint she's gonna have is that they didn't take more off than they did.

So too in the next world, those of us who suffered here are going to see how much our suffering is worth, and, "me", even though now we don't know why some people have to have some of their happiness in this world taken off their paychecks, in the next world, believe me, the only complaint we will have is why hashem didn't give us more of a Kaporah while we were still here.

May Hashem spare all of us from pain and Nisyonos and may we all know only happiness.

Me Posted - 10 January 2001 2:57

Oh, I never looked at it that way.

No comments: