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Shev-Xx Posted - 20 November 2002 14:10

Okay, so I’m frum and I totally believe that the Palestinians are wrong for most of the things that there doing.

But if we believe totally that they should be wiped out, and they believe the same about us, then how do we even know that there wrong?

They are teaching there children that we should be got rid of.. And we say the same.

We kill them, they kill us. For sure Israel says that if they stop bombing, then so will we, but Palestine have there own demands too. Besides, as Palestine haven’t quit the attacks, we've never had a chance to show that we'll stop.

Im not saying Im against Israel. Just that Im confused what grounds we base our hatred upon.

Shev Xx

MODERATOR Posted - 20 November 2002 14:32

Please read the rest of the material in this forum.

First of all, we don’t want anyone wiped out. All we want is that Jews shouldn’t be killed. The Zionists are as untrustworthy as any other secular despots and politicians. They have no interest in anything except their own agenda, which is not the same as ours. As Rav Shach writes:

"Please understand, everyone ... that we are obligated to declare the truth of our Mesorah, that the continued existence of the Jewish people is not connected to the continued existence of the State of Israel ... the Jewish people ("Am Yisroel")is not the State of Israel! And even if there is something that appears good for the State of Israel, who knows if it is good for the existence of the Jewish people". (Letters 1:15).

There is no question that the fight with the Arabs is due to the State of Israel - even the religious Zionists agree to this, as quoted from Rav Soloveichik numerous times in this forum. The agenda of Israel is to have a State even at the cost of Jewish lives. The Jewish agenda is to save Jewish lives even at the cost of a State.

Even more, the only reason why we don’t just give the entire State back to the Arabs is because it would cost Jewish lives; the reason why the Zionists sacrificed Jewish lives is in order to have and maintain a State.

What we must do in Israel today is not up to the heretical despots that would gladly kill Jews if it furthered their political agendas (and they have often done so), never mind that because they don’t understand the dynamics between Klall Yisroel and the Nations of the world, even if they had the right goals, they would have no clue what the right thing to do would be. We cannot trust them. They look at Klall Yisroel as just another nation of the world - the reality is we are different, our survival is different, and what works for the nations - i.e. the sword - does not work for us. "Becharbecha sichyeh" was Esav's bracha, not Yaakov's.

Only the Torah can tell us what to do, who is right and who is wrong. Meaning, the Gedolim of the generations. They are the ones concerned about Am Yisroel. The Zionists are concerned about Medinas Yisroel. Often, those two concerns are at odds

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