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MUSIC MOVIES and TV-----the internet


Me Posted - 01 September 2000 6:12

Is being on the internet really bad if you don't do anything wrong? I heard that Rabanim are extremely against it so is it really that bad??? If it is then I wouldn't be able to come to this site and also there are so many good frum sites on the web so I am just a little confused.

MODERATOR Posted - 01 September 2000 22:08

The Internet is dangerous. You're a click or two away from the Yetzer Horah's strongest weapons against your soul.

It would be better for all our souls if the Internet would be gone.

However, in the meantime, it is not gone. And therefore, although I would not encourage anyone to buy Internet service just to get to this site (or other good sites), nor would I discourage anyone from getting rid of the Internet because they will not have access to good sites, I will encourage those who are on the Internet and will be there to use it in as positive a way that they can.

asdfg Posted - 05 September 2000 2:19

I’ve been to a yeshiva where they seemed to think that internet is assur which seems absurd. There are temptations everywhere. When you walk down the street past a McDonalds you might have the temptation to walk in. Maybe you should avoid walking down the street.

Renée Posted - 05 September 2000 11:44

It seems to me that no matter where you are there are temptations to the yetzer hora. Like asdfg said walking down the street you might see a McDonalds and want to go in and eat something treif. Open up a magazine at the Dr.s office, switch on the TV, drive down the freeway and notice the billboards. Everywhere you go there are things that will cause you to think bad thoughts.

Certainly it is best to avoid these things, and their availability is no excuse to indulge, but with so much good on the internet it seems drastic to me to forbid its use. My own rabbi hasn't forbidden it, nor does he seem to discourage it's use, but if he did I would stop.

I know that several rabbi's think it is wrong to use internet but I wonder about those people who need it for work. Would it be alright for them to use it for the purposes of their professions if they didn't use it for anything else (recreation, education, or something worse)?

Is it a majority who feel the internet is assur? If it was wouldn't it be best not to put up a frum site? I mean, to discourage people from logging on because there would be no good in it.

MODERATOR Posted - 05 September 2000 12:19


If indeed we would see that the temptation of McDonalds has brought religious Jews to spiritual destruction, destroyed frum families, broken up marriages, became addicting, then indeed we would be obliged to avoid walking past a McDonalds.

The Gemora says that if a person needs to get from place A to place B, and one way will lead him past a group of women working at the riverbank, and the other will not take him past the women, if he takes the first path he is a Rasha. Even if he doesn't look.

These rabbis are not saying the Internet is "assur" the same way, let's say, pork is assur, they are saying that since it has proven to be a terrible influence on people - and there is no denying that it has - then you should not bring it into your home. That is altogether reasonable.

Of course, it therefore depends on whether the person "has two paths", meaning, why he needs the Internet, and what access he has.

Obviously, I have the Internet, but only I use it - my children only have an email account, no other access - and besides my being Moderator and my Kiruv work, I also have a means of livelihood on the side for which I need to use the net.

To be sure, there are Kosher things on the net, even good things. If I didn't believe that I wouldn't be here now. Nevertheless, if someone were to ask me, I would say for sure it's better to keep the Internet out of his home, because the good that you can gain by it does not justify the damage that it can do.

Someone could buy Playboy for the non-pornographic articles it has, but if the rabbis would say not to do it, nobody would argue their point.

Just look at PUNIM's post about that 60 year old rabbi. I happen to know who it is, and we're talking about a normal, regular person who unawares, despite himself, ended up stuck in a sewer he never ever would consciously go near.

Or just look at the AOL chatrooms - even the Jewish ones, never mind the other ones, which, by merely a couple of clicks of the mouse, curious 12 year olds (and 15 year olds, and 40 years olds) can access the worst perversions in the world. And we are all human beings, if you get my drift.

Online causes so many problems, not only for teenagers but adults too, and nobody denies this. Marriage counselors would be the first to confirm this. So will psychologists.

So if it causes so many serious, serious, problems, what's so hard to understand?

But in the meantime, there are tons and tons of Jews on the Internet. And as long as that is true, we definitely should try to make sure that the good on the net, if it doesn't outweigh the bad, at least puts in its best effort.

ptgard2281 Posted - 30 April 2001 15:43

What makes it okay to use the internet and not watch TV?

I know people who don't watch TV and are avid Internet users, and claim they don't watch TV because of the possibility of profanities popping up or the yetzer hara getting the best of turning on an inappropriate show -- it's just as possible for that to happen on the Internet as you are describing, so what's the deal?

Why Internet and not TV? Seems hypocritical to me.

MODERATOR Posted - 30 April 2001 15:54

Because using the Internet (in this manner) accomplishes a great deal of Mitzvos in terms of Harbotzas Torah, Kiruv Rechokim, and simple Gemilas Chesed and Chizuk that people get from it, which could not be done without it. So that makes it worth it, hopefully. TV doesn’t accomplish anything in terms of mitzvos.

EEE Posted - 01 May 2001 18:18

Someone told me recently that Internet is Assur. Is it Assur, or is it not Assur? I understand everything you wrote about not going near Nisyonos, etc., but bottom line: Is it Assur?

I assume that obviously not, because if something is Assur, no Jew can do it, even Rabanim, for "kosher" reasons. Am I right?

ptgard2281 Posted - 01 May 2001 18:18

TV can do just the same . . . think about it. There are Jewish channels on cable, there's the news, there are educational programs that teach about G-d's creations, etc. It's not all bad, per say. I really feel like the Internet and e-mail can be even harder to control -- sometimes you get weird spam, or you can click into the wrong pages accidentally . . . or you can be curious and look at certain things you shouldn't be when nobody is around or enter chatrooms and get involved with the wrong people.

I think it's easier to control what you see on TV -- TV might show inappropriate things, but they are FAR worse on the Internet. It's hard to go too far in the wrong direction with TV. One should hope that people use the Internet responsibly, but it's very easy for the yetzer hara to get the best of you.

MODERATOR Posted - 01 May 2001 18:52

Please see my post above of 5 September 2000 13:19.


If you don’t need the Internet for your livelihood, or whatever good you can accomplish on the Internet you can get elsewhere, then you are correct, it is definitely dangerous and the risk of the bad is not worth it.

But television is not needed in that kind of way. Even if there are some good things on it, its not worth the risk (and there are more commercials than spammers last I checked, btw), especially since you can find good things elsewhere besides TV. You wont lose much by giving up your TV. But work such as what we are doing here cannot be done at all without the Internet.

Nevertheless, if someone "peeks" in the wrong places, he should cancel his account. I have no use for a TV in my house c"v, but I do have use for the Internet account. And no, I do not find it hard to control at all. My browser puts me straight into

That having been said, I repeat that the Internet is very dangerous, and unless you need it, you should not have it at all. If you do need it, you must be very careful with it.

ptgard2281 Posted - 02 May 2001 16:19

What if a person didn't have the net and didn't have access to a Jewish newspaper . . . would TV be permissible then for information purposes?

MODERATOR Posted - 02 May 2001 18:08

Nope. There is no heter to put your soul in danger to get CNN.

EEE Posted - 03 May 2001 21:20

I understand that it is not allowed to put one's self before a Nisayon.
But because it is O.K. in some cases to have internet, I have no right to tell people that it is Assur, right?

Don't get me wrong, I do NOT want to have a T.V. or the internet in my home IY"H. I just think that it's important to know what's Assur, and what's very important, but not quite Assur. I think they should be treated differently.

MODERATOR Posted - 03 May 2001 21:47

That is correct.

yehuda Posted - 21 May 2001 9:01

The internet is very dangerous. Another person posted that perhaps it is as tempting to sin as any other time - like walking down the street, but I feel that this is far from accurate.

I personally have fell from the massive temptations of the internet. It has harmed my neshamah horribly, and only hope that with Hashem's help, it can be repaired.

The yetzer hora is so strong when sinning is close by, and it is often very hard to control it. I would like to warn everyone who thinks that they will never fall prey to the disgusting things on the internet, that they are strong while others are weak, to be extra careful, and "ase siyag letorah", because the yetzer harah can be overwhelmingly strong.

I don't know if the damage it has done to me will ever wear off, although I strongly hope that it will.

MODERATOR Posted - 21 May 2001 10:12


With Teshuva, the damage is repaired.

yehuda Posted - 22 May 2001 21:56

For aveirot where Karet is the punishment, R. Bachya Ibn Pequda (Chovot HaLevavot) says that ".. forgiveness is unattainable for him until he is tested in this world with what he can bear of suffering and is cleansed of his sins."

Teshuvah seems to be a very hard thing, and to do it properly so that one is forgiven, is especially difficult - in this case, it will be done with suffering. This is why I was worried about the damage to my neshomah wearing off - because it is so hard to fulfill the requirements of proper teshuvah.

MODERATOR Posted - 22 May 2001 23:23

Forgiveness and repairing the damage to your Neshoma are 2 diff things.

The Gemora in Kiddushin says if someone says to a women "You are married to be on the condition I am a total Tzadik", then even if he is a Rasha, she needs a Get, since maybe he did Teshuva right before he said that.

Everyone proves from there that you can go totally form a Rasha to a Tzadik - a total Tzadik - just by sincerely doing Teshuva. That repairs all damage to your Neshoma. You are then a total and complete, squeaky-clean, snow-white, Tzadik.

The thing is, you still have a "debt" to pay, for what you did in the past when you weren’t a Tzadik. So Hashem has to give Yesurim (pain). But even without the pain, you are still a total Tzadik, just the past is not wiped out. But as of the present, you are a total Tzadik, all repaired. The pain retroactively changes even the past, so that its like you were always a Tzadik, even in the past.

But starting now, you are considered totally a Tzadik.

Ani Yehudi Posted - 04 September 2001 16:20

Since discovering this site, I've managed to stay out of the 'internet trap' as mX aptly put it, but now, two and a half months later, I'm beginning to get caught up again. What can I do to save myself falling again?

MODERATOR Posted - 04 September 2001 17:54

Be strong, Ani. There is only one bottom line way to beat the Internet Nisayon, and that is simple self discipline. You did it once, you can do it again. Do not let the Yetzer Horah tire you out.

You can also make "siyagim" to help yourself out:

Put the computer in a public place.

Let other people use the computer, too (they may be able to see your log-in records, and the fear of discovery may keep you in check).

Make a limit to the amount of time you will allow yourself to spend on the computer. And if possible, make sure there is someone waiting for the comp after you, so you will really be off when your time expires.

Ani Yehudi Posted - 06 September 2001 20:23

Thanks for the advice, but the computer is in my own room ,and I don't think anyone else in my family knows how to view any records. Anyway I already failed since I last posted, but now that school has started again, I hope it will be easier for me. I'm trying to limit myself to just this site, and Yahoo for news.

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