MISC-----lack of achdus on frumteens?

aisheschayil Posted - 15 October 2002 7:18

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A thing that really makes me both sad and angry, is hatred among frum Jews. Why?

I heard several times lashon hara about ex. the chabad-chasiddim. Why?. Doesn't it say in the torah that you shouldn't speak lashon hara?

Didn't rabbi Akiva said: veahavto lereacho kamocha? You can't learn torah if you don't love and respect your fellow as yourself! It is a very important matter in yiddishkeit, and this is here, a lot of not only baalei teshuvah but also frum from birth are wrong.

I myself am a baalas teshuvah and the first thing I learned was that almost the whole torah is rabbi Akiva's words. Then it surprised me so much, how you could just sit there and say that chabad IS TRASH? They are the only ones, who taught me to love me fellow! They aren't speaking lashon hara. Why shouldn't I go over and be one of them?

I really want to have a good answer on this.

MODERATOR Posted - 15 October 2002 17:32

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Well, can you tell me then, why your accusations against other Jews of violating sinas chinam and loshon horah are any more acceptable than the accusations other Jews have against Chabad?

I guess its because you hold your accusations are accurate?

So that’s what it boils down to in the end - accusations do not constitute sinas chinam (they are neither sinah nor chinam), nor loshon horah (since we are talking about an ideology here.

To say a certain person is a Lubavitcher would indeed be loshon horah, but to say Lubavitch teachings are against the torah surely is not).

The issue, which you are not addressing, is, Lubavitch for the past half a century has gone off the derech of Torah and chasidus, and if you would like to discuss that, please address the issue, namely, the claims against Chabad (listed in the Lubavitch forum here), and try to respond to them. For merely crying sinas chinam and loshon horah gets us nowhere. Thank you.

db Posted - 15 October 2002 19:12

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Mod, she didn't say she hates other Jews because of this. She said it hurts her.

MODERATOR Posted - 15 October 2002 19:20

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Yes, and nobody said they hate Lubavitcher. yet she deduced that they hate them because they level accusations against them that they violate the torah. If so, she should derive the same sinas chinam in herself, for the accusations she levels against others.

aisheschayil Posted - 17 October 2002 7:36

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Listen mod, if I said that some people hates the chabad, I didn't mean it.

I am just sooo tired of people around me talking about not only chabad, but also the secular Jews. Are we do much better than them, if we talk that way?

Yes, they do things against the torah, but talking that way brings us nowhere. I am not saying that you are doing, this is just a message to everybody. Be aware of this. It is indeed a very big problem, which is actually never been solved.

But this problem is VERY important and it must be solved in any way. Respecting everybody is a way to connect with Hashem. Yes, seculars, reforms ex. are maybe not doing the right, but it would surely not bring the back on the derech!

MODERATOR Posted - 21 October 2002 11:50

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How are people going to know what’s right and wrong unless you say so?

The problem is that people have to know not to believe in Lubavitch and not to be secular. And if people don’t know how wrong these movements are, then how will they know to stay away and not be influenced? Plus, the secular Jews and Lubavitch do level false accusations against Orthodox Jewry which have to be countered. And it is perfectly alright in that context to expose the accusers for what they are thereby discrediting the accusations.

While it is true that we want everyone to do Teshuva (exception: Apikorsim, regarding whom we pray 3x a day in the common nusach of Vlamalshinim to die, not do Teshuva), until they do, we are obliged to identify those ideologies that are heretical.

If you would like to know how much you should respect a Reform rabbi, for instance, here is a benchmark. How much would you respect a leader of NAMBLA - an organization that preaches - and practices - child molesting. Assuming such a person were Jewish - would you be disturbed that people are disgusted by him and "look down" on him? Would you say we should respect him? And that by respecting such a person we come closer to G-d?

A child molester is evil. But he only destroys his victims emotionally - in this world. A Reform rabbi tries to destroy their Olam Habah. Of course a Jewish child molester is still a Jew! And of course we want him to do Teshuva! But while he continues molesting the souls of innocent Jews, destroying them for all eternity, we consider evil as well.

Every deviant movement and ideology must be assessed by its own inadequacies and we react accordingly.