For an enlarged, easier to read index click here . To "google search" this site, scroll to the bottom of this page. (This site is best viewed with "Firefox")

(Tips: F11 key enables full screen viewing & Ctrl-F to search the index)


ZIONISM / OATHS-----the main problem

jj Posted - 08 May 2002 17:08

I heard once from a very choshiva yid, a aydim by r' wolfson shlit"a who is himself regarded very highly by everyone that even the Satmar Rav zt”l only wrote that stuff about the sholosh shvuos mainly because he was against the tzionistin because they were frie but not that he actually held that you have to learn the gemoras in that way.

You taka see that all the tzionishi yeshivos learn viyoel moshe and bring rayos against it. And anyways, even if the satmar rav is learning the right pshat in those gemoras, he zicher was a daas yachid in this.

You see a lot of Gedolim who didn’t hold like that,(no I'm not quoting any off the top of my head, but I do remember hearing once a whole list, sorry for not bringing any mikoyris) so isn’t the main problem of the medina just that they’re frie(not that that’s a small problem, but you chap what im saying)

MODERATOR Posted - 29 May 2002 15:39


Your "choshive yid" is misinformed, regardless of who his Yichus. The Satmar Rav writes clearly in the introduction of VaYoel Moshe that his intention is specifically not that way - but rather he considers his material to be actual proofs. And until someone comes up with a way to disprove all of them, they are obliged to concede.

In fact, other Gedolim have said the same thing as well. In the famous letter of the Rebbe Rashab of Lubavitch about the Zionists, he writes clearly that even if they would all be nice religious Jews, it would not change anything. Their being heretics is emphasized because that’s easy enough to see and understand even without any great Torah knowledge, and it is incontrovertible even by the most confusing and confused Zionist. Its black and white.

The material there almost duplicates the Daas of the other Gedolim on all the core issues, such as, the prohibition of creating a State before moshiach comes, the violation of the Oaths etc. The disagreement between Satmar and other Gedolim are only on minor issues such as voting in the elections, being part of the government and taking money from them. And even in those issues, there is no unanimity among the authorities even outside Satmar.

As far as the "answers" are concerned, they don’t exist. Most if not all of them have already been posted on these boards, together with the errors inherent in them (not that it takes a rocket scientist to find the errors). It is true that they keep teaching these things in Zionist schools, but that is despite the fact that they don’t work - they need something to keep up their ideology - the same was Chabad schools keep teaching "proofs" that their dead Rebbe is Moshiach. its the same thing. the fact that someone doesn’t want to switch sides doesn’t mean he isn’t obligated to do so.

Until the Zionists come up with some semblance of legitimate answers to the claims leveled against them on Halachic grounds, they have no right to their position.

No comments: