ZIONISM-----giving ones life

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MODERATOR Posted - 26 June 2001 22:41
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Visiting the Kosel is not worth it if the ability to do so was purchased with Jewish lives, which it was. Not only have thousands of Jews died in order to sustain the State, but the Arabs have been antagonized into becoming bloodthirsty animals that kill and kill and kill.

Even the Bais HaMikdash itself isn’t worth having a Jew killed for. If the Bais HaMikdash was burning down it would still be Assur to risk your life to save it. Even Shabbos we violate to save Jewish lives.

And so, visiting the Kosel may be good, but it is simply not worth the price in Jewish lives that it was purchased with.

None of the mekomos HaKedoshim are permitted to be purchased with the deaths of Jews. To save Jewish lives, we would violate the torah almost across the board. Whatever the value of land, it does not compare to the value of life.

re: Homeland. This is Golus. That means we are not supposed to have a homeland.

And all this is beside the point that Hashem has prohibited us to violate His decree of Golus by creating a State in Eretz Yisroel before the coming of Moshiach


Jews are not allowed to give their lives for anything except to avoid the 3 Cardinal sins.

You would not give your life to keep Shabbos. You would not give your life to keep Kosher. You would not give your life to put on Tefillin.

Your life is more important to Hashem than any Mitzvah.

So what is your Heter to give your life for a Jewish State in Eretz Yisroel??????

Cant you see the anti-Torah attitude here? You are making Eretz Yisroel into an Avodah Zorah!
Please look and see - this is exactly why Zionism was considered Avodah Zorah by our Torah leaders.

Eretz Yisroel only has value within the context of the Torah. By saying that you would sacrifice your life for Jews to own land in Eretz Yisroel is giving ownership of EY religious value that is not within the Jewish religion, because in the Jewish religion, your life has more value than ownership of land.

And that constitutes Avodah Zorah.



Moderator, Do you mean mamish actual Avodah Zorah, the same way Christianity is Avodah Zorah? Or do you mean an Avodah Zorah the same way, let's say, money is an Avodah Zorah in America?



Absolutely real Avodah Zorah - see Rav Elchonon Wasserman in Ikvesa D'Meshicha. That is exactly what he says.

If in the Jewish religion a certain act is prohibited but a person says he will do the act for religious reasons then the religion he is following is clearly not Judaism.

Its not as if he claims to have any Torah reason for being willing to extinguish a Jewish life so Jews can own more land, its merely his imparting to owning the land some kind of spiritual value that allows him to do this. In the Torah, there is no such thing. He doesn’t even claim to get this form the Torah. That equals real live Avodah Zorah.

Even though people run after money and we call it "avodah zorah", they do not run after money for religious reasons. If they would, then money would be a real. live, Avodah Zorah