MUSIC, MOVIES & TV-----moshav leitzim

The Gemora in Avodah Zarah (18b) prohibits theaters because of Moshav Letzim. The Shulchan Aruch records that as Halachah in OH 307:16. So the definition is not mine, the Torah itself says it.

As to why sitting in a theater is included in moshav letzim, you need to look at the rest of the posuk:

"Fortunate are those who do not sit in a Moshav letzim, but rather desire G-d's Torah."

The posuk is saying that the fortunate ones - the ones that we have to be - are those who, instead of sitting in Moshav Letzim, learn Torah.

There is no in between in theis posuk. It is either Moshav Letzim, or learning Torah.

Thus, the Mishna in Avos (ch. 5) declares: "If two people are sitting together and they do not speak Torah, they constitute a Moshav Letzim."

The reason why simple wasting of time would be described as "Moshav Letzim," which means, as you put it "session of scorners" is discussed in the Meforshim. Basically, all explanations go in one direction. The Chosid Yaavetz explains it as follows:

If I showed you a pile of gold coins and gave you one hour to collect as much as you can - whatever you gather you can keep - you surely would not waste your time.

If you do waste even part of your time, it surely says something about how little you value the coins. In fact, it's kind of like slapping the coins in the face.

So too we have one lifetime to learn Torah. If we waste our time, it shows how little we value Torah. Someone who displays such blatant disregard for the value of Torah is a "scorner".

As far as Rav Dovid Feinstein, I am not aware of his attending ballgames. If he does - which I am not saying is the case - I cannot speak for him; you should pose the question to him himself. His number is listed. Let me know what he says.

But really, it's hard to believe that Rav Dovid attends baseball games seeing that his father in Igros Moshe YD IV:11 states matter-of-factly that attending sporting events is prohibited as Moshav Letzim.

Gemilas Chasadim and other Mitzvos are appropriate when the Halachah allows it, as per the dinim of "ei efsher laasos al yidei acheirim", but that's not the point.

In order to qualify as moshav letzim you have to do something that is bittul Toral en masse. Mitzvos do not apply.

As far as relaxing is concerned, that is permitted, as is stated in all the poskim. But not all forms of relaxation are permitted. Theaters are not.

And even among the ones that are, it is only in order to refresh yourself for Avodas Hashem.

Consider that if you had to collect those gold coins, you may need to relax somewhere down the line. But you surely would not spend any more time than necessary at it.

Your asspumtion about the nakedness and Avodah Zarah in ancient theaters incorrect. Like today, some were and some weren't. The Halachah does not distinguish between the two.



What's the difference between seeing a movie in a theatre or at your home? THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE! Why's one allowed and not the other.



If the problem with movies would merely be the stuff you are watching, then you would be correct that it doesn't matter where you are watching it.

But the problem of Moshav Letzim has nothing to do with WHAT you are watching. it is a seperate prohibition that is violated when people who engage in useless activity do so in a group. This is true regardless of the atmoshpere.

The reason for this is that if someone wants to waste his time in the privacy of his own home, that's one thing. But to do so in an organized fashion in a special place designated for wasting time is much more hurtful to Hashem, Who gave you your time to value. Wasting time is one thing, but making it into an activity is worse.



...We cannot exempt women from the prohibition of moshav letzim even though they are not obligated to learn Torah. There are two ideas to the statement in the posuk:

(1) You may not be invovled in organized unproductive activity (moshav letzim),

(2) but rather it would be better for you if you would be learning Torah, which is the most productive activity possible.

Even though, for women, Torah is not necessarily the most productive activity, that is only because they have other Mitzvos to do that are more obligatory for them than Torah.

The point of the prohibition is not to learn torah, but rather to invovle yourself in productive activity and not moshav letzim. The posuk gave what is generally the most productive activity possible, i.e. Torah learning.

If someone is not obligated to learn, they still have what is to them productive activity (mitzvos) and therefore have no reason to exempt themselves from "unproductive activity" (moshav letzim).


Tosfos in Shabbos (116b) quotes the Ri saying that secular literature (i.e. books about wars) should not be permitted even on the weekdays, because of Moshav Letzim.

The Maharsha explains that since draws you to read more, it therefore will cause you to be mevatel Torah (even beyond what you need for relaxation).

Any type of leisure activity that has an enticing, or habit forming effect, such as "books of wars" are included in Moshav Letzim, even though you are doing it privately.

It would seem that Moshav Letzim includes both group sessions of Bitul Torah , and also behavior which is characteristic of Letzim, even if done privately.

Letzim are those who do not care about Torah, and therefore, someone who willingly engages in activity that not only involves not learning, but will enhance his Yezter Horah for bitul Torah in the future, is a Letz.