MISC-----authority of rabbis

tantee
Posted - 03 March 2009 13:10

O.K. Here goes.

I hope that I can get this issue clear once and for all.

What is the Authority of a Rav?

What makes someone a "Gadol"?

In what situation are we meant to listen to them. Is it only in inyanei halacha?

If a Rav gives someone advise, does that mean that he has to listen to it.

Are the Gedolim the Manhigei hador?

What is the authority of Rav Elyashiv? What makes him the "Gadol Hador"?

In what situation can one say, "the Rav says x, but I think differently"?

What does Ase lecha rav mean? What does it bind you to? Does that mean that you should have one particular rav ,and ask only him your questions?

In what situation can or should one ask for a second opinion? Is that just basically choosing what you want to do?

You get the picture,

Being confused on this basic topic, makes me not confidently be able to say that I have emunas chachamim, and that I totally accept it, but admitting to such a thing, is stating "I don't have emunas chachamim" and then ppl totally look down upon you and you are basically ostracized,
And makes it hard for me to understand what I am obligated when a rav tells me something.

Let me know what you think?


MODERATOR
Posted - 03 March 2009 13:33

{What is the Authority of a Rav?}

Depends what you mean by "rav." A person is an authority in whatever topics he has expertise. "Rav" means "rabbi," and they have many different levels of authority, from zero to very very much.


{What makes someone a "Gadol"?}

Godol is a relative term; it means someone who stands out among his generation in greatness, which is measured in terms of Torah knowledge, and righteousness. There is no measurable threshold beyond which you are categorically a "godol", like there is when a person gets a medical degree and becomes a "doctor." Being that the term is relative, different people apply it to different levels of people, and even among those who are commonly referred to as Gedolim, they are not all the same. Rav Shach was a Godol, but he was not the Chazon Ish, for example.


{In what situation are we meant to listen to them. Is it only in inyanei halacha?}

No. First, Judaism is much more than inyonei halachah, like hashkafa, of course. But Gedolim, being super refined in their midos excel in intellectual honesty, objectivity, intellectual caution and precision, as well as seeing the world through Torah eyes, which provides a level of insight that a non-godol does not posses. On top of that, there is the siyata dishmaya that a Godol is granted that makes it smart to listen to what he says.


{If a Rav gives someone advise, does that mean that he has to listen to it.}

No. But don’t shrug it off either.


{Are the Gedolim the Manhigei hador?}

All manhigei hador are gedolim. But again, the term is used in so many different ways, you can have a "godol" who is not a manhig hador. The greatest gedolim are the manhigei hador.


{What is the authority of Rav Elyashiv? What makes him the "Gadol Hador"?}

I don’t know if he is "the" godol hador, but I won’t argue with someone who says he is. The godol hador means the greatest person in the generation.

To be continued


MODERATOR
Posted - 04 March 2009 0:42

{In what situation can one say, "the Rav says x, but I think differently"?}

The authority of the rav comes from his expertise, not from his position. It's not like let's say in a corporation you have to listen to the manager because he’s your boss even though you may know better. It's more like the reason you listen to your doctor - cuz he knows what he's talking about.

So the question is - when can you say "the doctor says X but I think differently?" The answer is, when you know better. Like, if lets say you’re a doctor too or you’re more educated in a particular area.

The same with your rav. If your mind is as sharp knowledgeable and full of Torah-vision as your rav then go ahead, argue. If not, then perhaps the doctor knows what he’s talking about.

That having been said, it is possible the rav was not informed about your situation properly, and you know the circumstances better. In such a case, you have to understand that the rav only gives advice based on the facts he knows. If they are incorrect or incomplete, so can be his advice. You need to consider that as well.


{What does Ase lecha rav mean? What does it bind you to? Does that mean that you should have one particular rav ,and ask only him your questions?}

It means that in the interest of consistency, and the benefits of having a rav who knows you very well, it is smarter to stick to one person. However, it does not mean that you cannot learn from others or even ask others. Again, it’s the same as doctors - but let’s use a therapist-doctor here, since the moshol works better. Your therapist knows you better than anyone else, he knows what works for you, and you don’t want to get advice form someone who will tell you something that, no matter how smart it is, is a contradiction to the approach that you are working with.

There is a great advantage in having a rav who knows your particular circumstances and who provides one consistent approach. That doesn’t mean you can’t seek wisdom elsewhere as well. Just know who your primary care physician is.


{In what situation can or should one ask for a second opinion? Is that just basically choosing what you want to do?}

Contrary to popular belief, you are allowed to ask a rav something that you already got an answer from a first rav, PROVIDED that you tell the second rav that you already asked and what you were told.

But that’s what you are ALLOWED to do. That doesn’t mean it’s always smart to do so. It depends on your motive for asking the second rav. If you’re looking for different perspectives and a broad array of wisdom, then, where advice is concerned (not necessarily halachah) that is a good thing - Rav Chaim Volozhen says so on the Mishna Marbeh Eitzah Marbeh Sevunah. But if you’re just looking for someone to tell you what you want to hear, don’t do it.


tantee
Posted - 05 March 2009 0:30
Thank you very very much for shedding light onto this topic and for thoroughly going through the points.