TEEN ISSUES-----molestation rape and abuse
montypython Posted - 27 December 2000 21:35
I was molested a few years back and it still haunts me now, sometimes. I was wondering if this has ever happened to anyone else on this board. I've been in group therapy, so I've met countless others like me, but never anybody religious.
It just doesn't seem like the type of thing that happens to "nice Jewish girls." I know it's really, really tough to talk about sometimes, but it would be kind of nice to know that I'm not the only one. Has this happened to anybody else??
1WhoCares Posted - 29 December 2000 16:18
Monty, let me tell you... I know of at least 3 girls who have been. It isn't talked about much in the "frum" communities and maybe it should be!
Has group therapy and stuff helped you out a lot?
Baruch Hashem I've never been raped or molested but help me out here, what can I do for a friend who HAS been...??
Like, I could never understand how hard it must be for her to wake up every morning or the fear she has when she remembers that time.
I admire you for bringing up this topic here.
MODERATOR Posted - 29 December 2000 18:15
Monty,
It's true, you are not alone. It's also true that although this happens even in the frum community, it happens a lot less than in the secular world.
The theory that Jews just don't talk about it as much has already been disproved in scientific studies. Much of the data is collected in Rabbi Lawrence Kelleman's "Permission to Receive".
Even regarding addiction, different cultures get addicted at different rates, and Jews, in general, are the lowest.
The thing is, the more we integrate into secular culture, the more we accept secular values and secular attitudes and therefore we lose our cultural advantages over other people. For interesting literature on this see
http://www.lindesmith.org/lindesmith/library/grpeel6.html and
http://www.peele.net/lib/sociocul.html
It is clear that our values have a tremendous effect on our functionality. The more we stray from the Torah as a society, the more messed up, as a society, we will be.
Monty, what happened to you was terrible. But you can beat it. I know others in your position, and they did survive.
When something happens to you like that, it's not just the fear of others that haunts you (this depends a lot on age and I don't know how old you are), but it’s the fear of yourself. Many people in your position are scared of themselves "changing", and some do change. Maybe they become more promiscuous, maybe they feel new Yetzer Horahs that they never before had.
And of course you ought to go for professional help to try to undo the effects of your experience. But.
But you can help yourself too. You can do for yourself what the shrinks can't because the shrinks don't understand a Neshomah, which you have, and which is going to help you here.
Listen, Monty, our feelings and behaviors are divided into 2 types:
(a) what we cannot control, and
(b) what we can control
Here's the rule: How good or bad we are depends completely and totally on category #2.
Hakol bidei shamayim chutz m'yiras shamayim. Everything is done by G-d except your choices. What you cannot choose is not your responsibility.
Again; Whatever happens to you that was not your choice you are not responsible for.
This includes our feelings, desires, attractions, and appetites. Sometimes we purposely strengthen our Yetzer Horah, like when a person goes mixed swimming and gets lewd thoughts, he is responsible since he chose to be there in the first place.
But whatever we desire that we did not choose to desire, whatever we want that we did not choose to want, whatever we feel that we did not choose to feel, whatever we are attracted to that we did not choose to be attracted to -- that's from Hashem. It's not even part of us, meaning our soul. It's part of the Yetzer Horah.
Having a Yetzer Horah is fine. It doesn't matter what flavor the Yetzer Horah is - vanilla or more exotic - it's still there from hashem. And as scary as the Yetzer Horah is, when we look into it and say "My gosh! That’s me????" you need to answer yourself,"No, it's not me, it's my Yetzer Horah."
What we can control, usually, are our actions. So if this incident leaves you alone and doesn't effect you, Boruch Hashem, but if it does, you need to remember this: It can only affect those parts of you that you cannot control. That's not you. It can affect your feelings, your fears, your desires. And no matter what those are, they are not you. They are the Yetzer Horah. these feelings, fears, appetites do NOT makes us more or less holy.
Holiness, goodness, righteousness, means by definition our choices. if we did not choose them, then they do not affect our status in the eyes of Hashem. Even if your non-choice feelings change, your holiness is not diminished in the slightest.
Your job is to continue to choose to fight the Yetzer Horah and say no to bad and to say yes to good. This means what you DO, not what you feel or what you want. Please understand this.
I know someone who was molested very harshly. Very. It freaked him out. he survived because he lived with the realization that the only things that changed in him are his feelings and his desires. And all that means is new "nisyonos" in this world. OK, so we try to undo the nisyonos, that's fine. But since he didn't let whatever happened to him change his BEHAVIOR, he survived very well.
He understood that we don't identify with our desires or appetites -- that's not our identity. We identify with our CHOICES. Anything else does not affect our identity at all.
That's the rule that you need to place before you always: If it's something we did not choose, it is not us. It does not become part of us. It does not affect our identity. We can try to get rid of it, but regardless, we are what we choose. Everything else is just part of the darkness of this world, like sticks or stones. We see them, we feel them, but they have nothing to do with us.
I don't mean c"v to minimize the pain or the severity of what happened to you. When I say you can survive it is not because what happened to you is not big. Rather, it is because no matter how big or how evil or awful or frightful it was, you, as a Tzelem Elokim, with a soul that has the power of Hashem Himself, can beat it. My words are intended to impact on your understanding of yourself, not on the nature of tragedy that happened.
ALEXIS16773 Posted - 07 January 2001 20:18
WELL I'M NOT REALLY WRITING ABOUT RAPE MOLEST, I'M WRITING MORE ABOUT ABUSE. OK, WELL THIS IS REALLY TWO TOPICS OF ABUSE.
THE FIRST IS, I HAVE AN AUNT WHO IS MENTALLY HANDICAPPED AND SHE LIVES WITH US. ANYWAY, A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS AROUND 8 (I'M NOW 16) MY FATHER WOULD PURPOSLY PHYSICALLY BEST MY AUNT WHO IS COMPLETLY DEFENSELESS FOR NO REASON, HE WOULD TELL US TO GO IN THE NEXT ROOM AND WE WOULD "SECRETLY" WATCH MY FATHER DO HIS "DUTIES".
MY AUNT IS NOW IN ICU FOR THE PAST FEW WEEKS FOR A SEVERE CASE OF PNUEMONIA AND JUST TODAT WHEN I WAS PRAYING FOR HER THIS POPPED INTO MY MIND AND IT HAS'NT FOR A LONG TIME AND NOW ALL I CAN THINK ABOUT IS THIS.
NUMBER TWO IS AROUND THA SAME PERIOD MY FATHER TOOK HIS ANGER ON ME AND TWICE HE REALLY HURT ME, ONCE WITH CLOSED FISTS AND THE OTHER WITH A BROOM.
THE REASON I'M WRITING TO YOU NOW IS THAT I WANT TO KNOW IF THERE'S ANYWAY NOW I CAN GET MY FATHER BACK? PLEASE GIVE ME SOME SOLUTIONS.
THANX ALEXIS
MODERATOR Posted - 07 January 2001 22:41
I assume you really mean "beat' your aunt. I also assume you mean "get your father BACK".
The issue isn't revenge. The issue is how to protect you and your siblings, and to get your father the help he needs.
This is tricky. if you call the authorities, they are likely to simply take you and your siblings away and throw you into the "system", which is not good.
I don't know your situation. there are many things you can try, but if you make the wrong move it could backfire and bring disaster.
Threatening to call the authorities may help, or even threatening to tell someone who is legally bound to call the authorities such as a social worker or doctor. Threaten but don't do this unless someone's life in seriously in danger.
What I would recommend is getting out of your house. Go to boarding school if possible, or live by a relative. If you so threaten, this is what you should bargain for. Let me out of this house or I will tell the authorities.
I also recommend that such threats should not be made directly by you but by an adult. Find someone you trust but is not legally bound to report abuse, such as a neighbor or relative, and let them do this. The reason is that you threatening your father may antagonize him further, possibly encouraging more violence, so if you can get someone else to do it if is better.
If however, someone's life is in danger there, there is no choice. You must call the authorities right away. If you don't know who to call in your area, tell your doctor or the principal in your school and they will do it.
montypython Posted - 29 January 2001 23:34
Hi! I'm sorry I haven't written in a while. I was at a retreat and then I spent some time in the hospital to get my medication balanced.
It's oddly fascinating to see that there are other kids on this board who went through a lot of the same things.
NotSoHappy-- you probably have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, even though you haven't been diagnosed.
That basically means that things can trigger and you can't control the response. You should know that there's a medication that's been approved for PTSD now, and talk therapy helps a lot.
Estimated therapeutic recovery period for what I've been through is 2-10 years, and this is year 3. I try so hard...sometimes it seems like it's never going to end. But I do see a difference since I started therapy--I have less intrusive thoughts and I'm sleeping better. Once in a while things still trigger (usually at the most inconvenient times!) but if I take deep breaths and concentrate on accepting the memories and realizing that it wasn't my fault, I feel more at peace with the situation.
Kasper--I'm really amazed that you had the strength to do that. I had the opportunity to testify in court a long time ago, but the doctors decided I wasn't stable enough. I still don't know if I could do it now. What ever happened to him? Is he in jail or a juvenile detention facility?
green Posted - 27 March 2001 17:01
I was raped by s/o I know - I told s/o, but I changed everything because I didn't want them to know that I knew the person, or ask me any details about it. My mom sort of knows that s/t happened but not really what.
I'm in therapy now for another reason, but I can't talk about this.....I don't know what to do- I’m supposed to just act like nothing happened and I do, but I can't sleep at night and I feel so wrong- this was 2 years ago and I still cant get over it, I don't know why. I don't want to talk about it to anyone but im writing b/c I want to do something to fix it and I guess im trying to find an easy answer.
MODERATOR Posted - 27 March 2001 17:59
green,
You really need to see a good professional about this. Someone you can trust. If you don't know of a trustworthy, competent one, please tell me what town you live in and I will gladly recommend someone.
Hang in there. You will be able to sleep again at night; you just need help now.
green Posted - 28 March 2001 0:52
Thanks for answering- I am seeing s/o now but it’s because of something else. I can't talk to her about it- I don’t think I would be able to tell everything to a therapist or anyone-I'm just trying to figure out what to do with myself besides "talking" because I really don't think I can.
NotSoHappy Posted - 09 May 2001 14:33
Hi Monty, I haven’t been here in a while and I just saw your reply.
I may have PTSD or whatever you said it was but I can’t take medication for it. For one, my parents don’t know about this and I would never think of telling them, and without them how can I get the medication.
Also, I don’t know if I would take the medication, I don’t know if I would be willing to do that. I guess because that shows me that I have a prob and I'll have to face it and I guess I'm not really ready for that and I don’t want to.
I know I'm rattling off here but I'm tired and I should be in bed so till next time.....
MODERATOR Posted - 09 May 2001 17:13
NotSo,
Treating PTSD exclusively with medication works only for normal life traumas, such as the death of a loved one r"l, for instance. But in a case of rape, such as yours, which can leave lasting psychological effects, you need to talk it out with someone qualified to deal with this. You can't rely on the medicine alone, which will relieve the immediate symptoms, but not cure the psychological effects.
Also, if you are 16, you can probably get medicine without your parents' knowledge, and in emergencies, probably at 15. You should definitely see a doctor and discuss this with him.
Last I checked, the only medicine approved for treatment of PTSD is Zoloft, which will block your serotonin, but serotonin is not your problem here. The medicine will not do anything to repair any possible harm done to your perception of men, your skills for intimate relationship, etc. All the medicine will do is treat the symptoms.
A doctor may also prescribe anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medication for you. But these too, although they may make your current situation less painful or stressful, will not cure the problem. Therapy is vital in your case.
Please go for help.
NotSoHappy Posted - 10 May 2001 14:35
Thanx Moderator but I don’t think I'll be getting help. I just don’t think I would be able to talk about it with someone. I've tried but I cant, I just start crying or something. But thanx anyways.
MODERATOR Posted - 10 May 2001 15:27
Hey Notsohappy, crying is fine. You don’t have a friend who you are close to so that you can cry to them? We all need someone we can cry to. If you think your tears are too personal to show some shrink, I can hear that. But at least, first find someone that cares about you, that you feel comfortable with that you can pour out your heart to.
The friend can give you strength to eventually get the professional help you need. You don’t have to cry to the professionals; the tears you can reserve for your friends. But your friends can help you be able to talk to the professionals without crying, maybe even someone can come with you to the shrink so you won’t have to be there alone.
Or maybe you want to talk this out anonymously. There are ways to talk without revealing who you are, then if you cry they'll never know it was you.
Please notso, you can get fixed up, good as new. Like before it happened. This nightmare can be over and you can get on with your life. I know, I really, really know, that now it feels like it can never be good again, but I'm telling you I know for a fact it can.
Its normal after what happened to you to feel that way, but you really outta get someone - at least a friend, or perhaps an anonymous person who cares and understands - to talk to about this.
Please, please, please get help. If you need something - money, whatever, let me know. You can do this, even without your parents knowing. Please please get help.
NotSoHappy Posted - 20 May 2001 15:31
Thanx Moderator for caring. I dunno why you do but it’s so good to know that even someone who doesn’t even know you actually takes the time to write to you about these stuff.
About what you said, right here where I live I don’t really have friends that I would feel comfortable with talking about these kinda stuff. Most of my friends here are from school and very religious and wouldn’t understand. But hopefully I'll be going to camp and I know that a lot of my good friends are coming back and my friends from camp are the ones I feel most comfortable with so maybe during the summer I'll be able to get some stuff out of my system.
Also, there’s a guidance counselor in camp who tried talking to me once already because my friend went over to her about me but I didn’t want to talk at the time. I kinda kept up with her during the year because we were working at the same place for a while so I'm thinking that maybe once I'm back in camp I'll feel comfortable talking to her. Do you think I should???
I'm not too sure about it myself but... I'll prob try.
Thanx again!!!
MODERATOR Posted - 20 May 2001 18:49
You're welcome. Stick with your camp friends and the guidance counselor and beat this thing.
And btw, I'm probably more religious than your friends, and I understand. Not understanding is due to ignorance, not being frum. Unfortunately, sometimes people think they're frum because they're ignorant, which is very messed up. According to Hashem, Who sets the standards for what frum is, you have done nothing wrong, and deserve all the help and understanding and compassion any human being can give you.
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