ZIONISM-----dont we need hishtadlus?

israelian Posted - 03 May 2004 7:56

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If you're saying that because of kochi v'otzem yadi that we're constantly being attacked, then we should just take away tzahal and say , "ok G-d, you take it from here, it's all up to you, it's in your hands now". that's ridiculous.

What about ein somchin al hanes? we have to put it our hishtadlut, and show G-d that we're doing our part, but realize that he's the actual one doing all the behind the scenes stuff-allowing tzahal to be victorious.

rok613 Posted - 13 May 2004 8:13

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Moderator, I guess I was very loose with my words. I'm not sure what safe means anymore. So now I am confused about being in Eretz Yirsroel or Israel.

Is it dangerous to live here? are you saying people are not necessarily right for moving here? BY the way that’s where I live right now-yerushalayim to be more precise. sometimes I forget why I’m here. I really don’t want to lose that. there’s gotta be a reason I’m here...

MODERATOR Posted - 13 May 2004 8:42

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israel,

Of course "ain somchim al hanes", and we need Hishtadlus.

But the Nisayon of Hishtadlus is to know that its not YOU who is doing the work - it's Hashem.

This means that when Israel wins a war, we do not feel strong, or proud, or "normal", or "finally Jews can defend themselves."

Instead, we should feel humbled - kotonti mikol hachasodim - Hashem has seen fit to overcome the odds of nature for the sake those Jews who were in danger, and did us a favor.

We should feel indebted, humbled, as if - and it's not "as if" - it's reality! - we were given a gift from Hashem.

We must wonder whether there were Zechuyos c"v that were spent in order to merit a military victory.

We must remember that Klall Yisroel is the weakest of the nations, physically; that our Brachah, our survival, is Mital Hashamayim, whereas Esav's Brachah was b'charbecha sichyeh.

We must realize that IDF OR NOT, we are still one sheep among 70 wolves, and if a sheep defeats wolves, it is not because the sheep is strong; it is because the sheep has a Shepherd that blew away the wolves.

So imagine what an idiot the sheep would be to feel like he is stronger than the wolves.

On the contrary, according to the Zionists, the Israeli military victories, as well as the continued existence of the State, are themselves great miracles, straight form Hashem (the truth is, they are not miracles at all).

But if al pi derech hatevah Israel cannot survive, and if al pi derech hatevah it takes a Ness to maintain its continued existence as a state in the Middle East, then the biggest ain somchim al haness is having a State of Israel.

You cant go around saying that Israel's continued existence is a Ness and then say you need Israel because ain somchim al haness.

Zionism is full of contradictions and inconsistencies that it boggles the mind.

When they want, their existence is not possible except through constant nissim; but when they want, their existence is necessary because ain somchin al haness.

rok,

Whether a person should move to EY depends on the individual person. Wherever it is better for your Avodas Hashem, that’s where you should be.

The Rashbam writes, EY is the best place in the world for Tzadikim, and the worst place in the world for Reshayim.

Rav Elchonon Wasserman ZTL, in Kovetz Maamarim comments that this is why EY is so dangerous (he wrote this even before the holocaust) - he said that based on that Rashbam, if Hashem wants to punish someone for being bad, the punishment will be worse in EY than it would be in Chutz Laaretz.

So if there are sins committed in EY, then EY will become dangerous - a lot more dangerous than chutz laaretz would under the same circumstances.