ZIONISM / ANTI-----should we give it back? 3

Alexander Posted - 22 January 2007 16:40

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Ok so Zionists are wrong and Neturei Karta are wrong because giving away land won't solve the problem. Fine, so what do you think ought to be done now, Mod?

There is a state with millions of Jews attacked by goyim. If, despite all the uproar that creation of the state WAS a mistake, what should do in the PRESENT time if dismantling the state and giving away land aren't the best solutions?

MODERATOR Posted - 22 January 2007 17:48

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alex,

You’re mixing apples and Oranges. Its not that "Zionists" are wrong, but rather Zionism is wrong. Zionists follow a misbegotten, heretical belief. Neturei Karta have crazy political ideas, and are out of touch with reality - they have no idea how to "apply" their Hashkofo, which is why they go around wreaking havoc and doing the bad things they do.

They have absurd political ideas and a extremely misconstrued picture of reality, so they don’t really have an inkling of who to give roses to and who to shoot at. But Hashkafa-wise, they are the same as Satmar.

As far as what to do: I spoke about this many times on the site. Currently, only 2 things can happen to fix this mess the Zionists got us into:

(a) The Zionists will change their minds, and work to peacefully and safely dismantle Israel, and

(b) Hashem will figure out what to do and do it.

Option (a) is not currently viable, which leaves option (b).

That means we have to pray to Hashem, as Rav Shach ZTL reportedly did, that Hashem should get rid of Israel without endangering one single Jew.

Even though ain somchin al haness, but after someone has slipped off the empire state building, while they are on their way down, nobody will expect them to pray for anything but a ness. There are no other options here.

But there is something simpler: When the State of Israel was established in '48, the Brisker Rav was terribly pained by the horrible event. The Chazon Ish heard about how bad the Brisker Rav was taking it, and sent him a message.

He said to the Brisker Rav "Don’t worry - Hashem can always nullify a Gezeirah Raah even after it happens. Hashem can nullify this Gezeirah Raah and undo the State of Israel."

The Brisker Rav sent back to the Chazon Ish: "That is true only if the victims of the bad Gezeirah look at it as bad. But if the victims of the bad Gezeirah welcome the Gezirah, then if they do not consider it a Gezeirah Raah, Hashem does not nullify it. I am afraid, Chazon Ish, that this Gezeirah Rah therefore cannot be so easily nullified, since so many people do not recognize it as a Gezeirah Raah."

The thing we must do now to protect Klall Yisroel from the dangers, spiritual and physical, that Zionism has put us in, is to realize, and help others realize, that the State of Israel is indeed a Gezeirah Raah, like the Chazon Ish and Brisker Rav declared it.

And that, as per the Brisker Rav's answer to the Chazon Ish, is what is needed in order for this Gezeirah Rah to become null.

The more we realize that the State of Israel is a Gezeirah Raah, the more the chances of Hashem helping us out of it.

So just by asking the question - what can we do to get us out of the mess that the State of Israel puts us in? - you have provided a small part of the solution.

About this question it can surely be said - shailas chacham chatzi T’shuva.