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FACTIONS-----modern orthodox-what is it? 4 (updated 1/23/07)

zachor Posted - 24 October 2006 16:24

I would just like to make a point:

Although I did not get the opportunity to read every page of this lengthy (but fascinating) forum, I would like to add, as a 'more modern' perhaps Jew, that in my opinion, such things as coed schooling and camps are not at all part of modern orthodoxy's original theology, but that the movement (for want of a better term) has evolved to accommodate those looking for loopholes in Yahadus.

These newer aspects of MO are not only quite disturbing to me as an individual, but are not the fundamentals of MO.

MODERATOR Posted - 24 October 2006 16:40

There was no modern orthodox "original theology". Nobody made a theology of MO the way lets say the Baal Shem Tov did for chasidus or Rav Yisroel Salanter did for Mussar. it just was the result of people on the street doing what they were doing.

Little Miss Anonymous Posted - 12 December 2006 16:33

But it helps, doesn’t it?

I mean, to have a better understanding of the world we live in and the people we live it with... it helps us understand it better and not have the risk of sounding like clueless idiots.

taon Posted - 28 December 2006 18:41

That's not Modern Orthodoxy. You can do all that (if you need to, but we shouldn't feel ashamed of ourselves and have to look up to the goyim, though I doubt that's what you meant) without having to get involved with the problems in MO.

Look at the Moderators for an example. see how much they know. I used to be MO (now I'd call my self just trying to be a Torah Jew) and from what I've seen, it causes problems more than it solves.

harry lincoln Posted - 31 December 2006 11:10

I agree. I happen to be not MO but I have a lot of MO friends even though most of them are shtark people I would say that that the ultra orthodox have an easier way (I am NOT saying this applies to everyone and I happen to love many MO people)

MODERATOR Posted - 31 December 2006 12:00

Yes, they do. It is easier to fit a round peg into a round hole than to fit a square peg into a round hole. And trying to live the so-called Modern Orthodox lifestyle according to the Torah is the latter.

MODERATOR Posted - 12 January 2007 9:48

Little miss anonymous,

Taon is of course right - Modern Orthodox Jews, despite what they imagine, are not the least bit more "clued in" than anyone else.

But there’s a more important point here. Who are you worried about "seeming like clueless idiots" to? To Rav ELyashev, to Rav Chaim Kanievsky, you’ll sound like a clueless idiot if you say that mixing of the sexes and secular studies is a good thing to do.

Our job description of our existence in this world is not to impress people with our knowledge of sports, MTV trivia, anthropology, movie stars, secular literature, culinary expertise, or the latest fashion news. To some people I know, if you don’t know that Cameron Diaz and Justin Timberlake broke up, you’re a clueless idiot.

We have no reason to spend out time satisfying every Tom Dick and Harry's personal ideas of who is or is not a "clueless idiot". We have our own guidelines, given to us by Hashem, as to what constitutes "cluelessness" and it is our own standards and rules that we follow. To the extent that the Torah allows - or desires - us to engage in non-Torah pursuits, we may - or should - do so. But it is the Torah's guidelines that we follow; not those of the streets.

get high Posted - 22 January 2007 16:40

Cameron Diaz and Justin Timberlake broke up?!!

How come I didn’t know this? lol

Alexander Posted - 22 January 2007 16:40

If YU is to be redesigned as a non-co-ed institution, will it be acceptable halachicly or are there still problems with it?

Also, what's better for a person to do if he/she aspires a college degree (whatever the reason may be, say parnosa) - is it better to attend some LIU with majority non-Jews and maybe some weekly Hillel class or YU with its numerous Rabbis and Jews around?

MODERATOR Posted - 22 January 2007 16:52

Get high?

You didn’t know they broke up? Must be you’re a clueless idiot.

How do you expect Jews to be a "Light unto the Nations" if you are so our of touch with the outside world? Don’t you realize that "everything is from Hashem" and therefore you should analyze and study it all?

How unsophisticated you are! What would the Rambam say about some like you? He learned Aristotle! How could you be so uneducated? Sheeesh!

MODERATOR Posted - 22 January 2007 17:12


YU is not co-ed.

The problem with YU is, well, there are so many it's hard to summarize - you have Zionism. modern orthodoxy, terrible Kefirah being taught - in the colleges officially,

AND in the Yeshiva because of some rabbis' bad Hashkofos (and the fact that many rabbis there do not teach Kefirah is not a defense), the list goes on and on --- but those are (mostly) problems with individual people. YU has had Rebbeim who are as anti-Zionist as this website, etc) As an institution however, the problem with YU is their Torah UMadda philosophy that is built in to their mission, which is quite against the Torah.

If someone wants to get a college education it is better to go to a secular college that to YU. This is because in a secular college you will not be misled by secular colleges into the bad Hashkofos that you will be exposed to in YU.

By way of analogy, the Halachah demands that all dangerous places in your property be protected with a fence, like a roof. However, a slanted roof that is more dangerous than a flat one does not need any fence. The reason is because people know that slanted roofs are dangerous and so they are careful when walking on them. As opposed to a flat roof, which is much safer, but because people tend not to feel the danger, since they are walking on flat ground, the false sense of security they have can kill them.

Btw - just because someone attends secular college does not in any mean that his Torah education is henceforth limited to some Hillel. So technically the answer to your Q is (c) None of the above.

yankeeinkneesox Posted - 22 January 2007 17:52

LOL Moderator ;-) It is kinda ridiculous that it's been all over the news ;-)

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