MISC-----laxity in tznius / kashrus in lithuania?

ptgard2281 Posted - 18 June 2001 20:35

---

I have been told by parents and grandparents that years ago, there weren't really hashgachas on food, and you basically ate whatever your rabbi said was okay OR you just checked the ingredients to make sure there wasn't any lard.

How do we justify what they did then? When did all of this change? Why did it change? Why are we so strict now and they weren't -- halacha hasn't changed!

It was the practice of so many Jews to keep kosher in this way . . . I've asked many people and rabbis, but I don't get how they got away with it then and all of a sudden we can't do that anymore.

eyeballs15 Posted - 18 June 2001 20:41

---

I agree, also Tznius back than wasn’t even an issue did you ever see they’re skirts? They no way covered there knees, their sleeves didn’t cover there elbows, even rebbetzins I've seen pictures of holy people and they weren’t Tznius at all

ptgard2281 Posted - 18 June 2001 20:44

---

It's funny you mention that because I was going to ask that in the Tznius forum . . . I used to have teachers who told us how they used to wear mini skirts and nobody thought it was wrong, and all of a sudden things changed -- what are the explanation for all of this?!?

MODERATOR Posted - 26 June 2001 21:46

---

There were times in our history where, in certain communities, there was widespread neglect in certain areas of Halachah. In pre-war Lithuania, women were rebellious about Tznius. Even in frum homes, many women refused to cover their hair, or dress according to Halachah.

The poskim, most notably the Aruch Hashulchan, struggled with the problem of the husbands having to make Kiddush and Havdolah etc. in front of improperly dressed women. Why this happened specifically there and then is a long story, and has a lot to do with left-over influence of the Maskilim. But this was never considered proper or acceptable. It was just hard to control the women. But this was true only in that area. Hungary or Poland for instance, did not share that mess.

The reason people assumed food was Kosher based on the ingredients in those days was because they didn’t know better - they were from Europe and were under the impression that the ingredients was eno0ugh to tell them if an item is kosher. There was, then, very little awareness about Kashrus that there is today. no kosher magazines, the organizations were very primitive compared to today's standards, and information in general was lacking.

Re: Cholov Yisroel. When Chazal make a decree, the decree must be kept even if the reason no longer applies. So government standards would not allow eating cholov akum. Rav Moshe's heter was based on the idea that because of the government inspectors, all the milk fulfills the requirements of the decree, meaning, basically, that all our milk is in fact, cholov yisroel.

However, as we explained in the Cholov Yisroel forum, Rav Moshe says not to rely on his heter where real cholov yisroel is available, and he only intended his words for those who have no access to cholov yisroel otherwise.