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12.27.2006

EMUNAH and Bitachon-----why believe?

Racheleah Posted - 16 May 2000 19:09
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Do you believe in Him? Really?



Dina Posted - 30 May 2000 13:00
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I went to Bais Yaakov in Israel. I asked my teacher why I should believe in G-d. She said that if I have such a question that means I don't believe in him. So I guess I don't believe in G-d, and neither do you, cuz you asked the question, too!!!!!




MODERATOR Posted - 01 June 2000 13:56
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Dina, Your question in school was perfectly legitimate. Your teacher, unfortunately, simply did not know how to answer it. It is discussed in countless seforim.

The great Gaon and Tzaddik, the Chayei Adam, in his last will and testament to his children (called "Bais Avrohom") explains to them clearly why they should believe in the Torah and Hashem. If he thought it important enough to put in his last requests to his children, we ought to consider it important enough to clarify to ours.

The reason for believing in Hashem is because it is clear and substantiated that there is a G-d Who created the world, that He gave the Torah to Moshe on Har Sinai, and told the Jewish nation to follow it. It’s all pretty obvious. But first, I’m going to give you something to think about.

Here’s something to ponder:

In the Torah, Hashem appears to the entire Jewish nation – about 3 million people – and tells them “I am Hashem . . .”. In ALL OTHER religions (all!), G-d comes to ONE person, or a small group of people, and introduces himself saying “Go tell everyone that I appeared to you and they should listen to what you say.” Like J’s father claiming that an angel appeared to him claiming that his wife’s baby is the Messiah, or Mohammed claiming a prophetic vision, or John Smith (the Mormon guy) claiming to have stumbled upon some newly landed golden tablets somewhere in New England.

Now obviously it would be more credible to the originators of these religions if they would claim that G-d Himself didn’t just whisper in their ear, “Pssst – here’s a new religion”, but would instead show Himself to the entire populace of Iran or Salt Lake City and say “I am G-d. This is what I want you to do…”. Yet NO RELIGION CLAIMS THAT G-D APPEARED TO THE MASSES, except Judaism.

To be sure, the religions of the world are mutually exclusive – Christianity, for instance, clearly rejects Islam, and vice versa. So one thing everybody agrees on is: SOMEONE here is making up their own fake religion. And not only someone, but almost all religions HAVE TO be a fake, because they all (for the most part) claim all the others are phony.

The only question is; Which is NOT the fake? So now if people are going to make up a story, why don’t they make up a better story than “G-d told me, privately, to tell you that he wants you to follow whatever I say He says”? Why can’t they just make up a story that G-d told the WHOLE WORLD to follow their religion? Or at least a few million Arabs / Christians / Mormons etc.? Wouldn’t that make more sense? With all the crazy religions and cults out there, not one of them has figured out this idea – even though it is clearly stated in the Torah. Strange, no?

Why are they settling for a weak religion, one that depends on the believability of the prophet, rather than a strong one, where G-d Himself came to the people telling them to follow the prophet? That’s the question, Dina. So tell me, what do you think?


Dina Posted - 02 June 2000 16:10
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I have no idea.




MODERATOR Posted - 02 June 2000 16:15
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OK then, how's this: If you were a false prophet and you wanted to make up a new religion. Which of the following would you do:

(a) Tell people that G-d came to you and told you about this new religion, or
(b) Tell people that G-d came to al of THEM or all their ancestors and told them all to follow Dina?


Racheleah Posted - 11 June 2000 14:06
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I would tell them that G-d came to me or something like that. How can I tell them that G-d came to them they would know its not true? Same thing id I told them G-d came to their parents, how come they don't know about it and only I do?



MODERATOR Posted - 11 June 2000 15:01
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I agree. As you say, you can't get away with creating such a hoax. And obviously that's why all religions that claim the "word of G-d" start off with G-d supposedly speaking to someone privately, as opposed to a whole nation. Except for one religion. Judaism claims that Hashem came to the entire nation and spoke to them. The entire nation is claimed to have seen and heard Hashem Himself descending into this world.

This was clearly the belief of the Jewish nation shortly after the event (Kabbalas HaTorah) is claimed to have taken place - King Dovid built the Bais Hamikdash about 400 years after the Torah was given.Dovid HaMelech publicly claimed that the Torah is true (it is all over his Tehillim), meaning the Torah that claims that the entire nation - ancestors of all living then - heard Hashem.

Now the question is: If it wasn't true how come nobody said "King Dovid -- we never heard of that before!” There were constant deviant and rebellious sects among the Jews throughout history. Karaim, Sedukim, Christians, et al. All of them had their own "ideas". But interestingly enough - not one of them even denied or questioned the giving of the Torah on Har Sinai! Even the Christians made fools of themselves rather than deny this simple event. They say that once upon a time, Hashem came to the entire nation and gave them the Torah.

They say that was the "temporary" Torah. But when Hashem supposedly gave the "permanent" Torah (the "New Testament"), the same Hashem, instead of coming back and announcing it to the entire nation the way He did the first time, had some "angel" privately visit a guy named Joseph and whisper it in his ear.

They could not make up a story about Hashem visiting the nation because, as you said, it wouldn't fly. So now they're stuck with the unhappy predicament of having the "old" law publicly announced, but the "new, revised" law whispered privately to some individual. Not very believable, is it?

But the question is: If Hashem did NOT give the Torah on har Sinai, then who did create it? And how was it possible that never did any of the descendants of the witnesses of the historical event question it? Why was Judaism the only religion able to pull this off?

Especially since there were always those groups who questioned almost everything in Judaism -- but on this issue they never said "boo”. Well, Dina? What do you think now?

And this is just for starters.



Dina Posted - 19 June 2000 16:10
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I want to think about that. And ask a few people.



Dina Posted - 27 June 2000 12:23

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OK, what you said makes sense. Is this why we're supposed to be frum?



MODERATOR Posted - 27 June 2000 14:30
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Well, that's the simplest reasons we know the Torah is true - because it was handed down from generation to generation in a way that it could not be fabricated. The "Chayei Adam" writes that to his children. But there are other reasons, too. The Torah is clearly provable.

The problem is that other "religions" which make no sense at all run around telling people that their religion is true, and unless people sit down and really think about it, it seems like you have a bunch of people with a bunch of opinions, and whenever that happens, people figure nobody is 100% right. But for someone that looks for the truth, its apple pie simple.



akiv44 Posted - 05 July 2000 15:48
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There really is no way to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a god. And there definitely is no way to prove it that can stand up in court. However if there is no god. And the world is just run through random occurrences then we’re all screwed. so we might as well believe!


MODERATOR Posted - 05 July 2000 16:37
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There certainly are ways to prove G-d beyond any shadow of a doubt, that would stand up in any objective person's mind, never mind court. Can you answer the proof that I submitted above?

Hint: Many religions, bible-critics (sic), atheists, and others have tried throughout the years and been unable to find an answer. There’s more.

How about the fact that nature is so infinitely complex that the chances of it happening by chance are zilch? If you were to find a camera in a desert, would that prove to you that someone was there, or would you believe that the camera was the result of millions of years of happy accidents of nature? Well, your eye is infinitely more complex than a camera. Either Someone created it or it came by accident. Which is it?



akiv44 Posted - 06 July 2000 12:27
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You proof proves that the torah is true. It doesn't do much for god. People have been debating the issue for 5000 years. I mean Neanderthals had religion I assume they also debated the truth of god existence:-) no one has ever been able to prove it one way or the other. But like I said before we have no choice but to believe





MODERATOR Posted - 06 July 2000 12:36

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I started a new thread called "Proofs to G-d and Torah". We'll continue the discussion of proofs there. Akiv44, you should find this interesting . .


huh?!? Posted - 10 February 2003 18:36
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dear rabbi mod. normally I would go to the new thread but my question isn’t on the proof of G-d cuz He’s already been proven to me. my question is really just a question that I thought about for a long time and just don’t have a satisfying answer for yet.

Q: iv always been told that HaShem created the world cuz He wanted to do chessed but to want something that you have to do something to get it means that you lack it. and HaShem is not supposed to lack anything. so what’s going on? what really happened?



MODERATOR Posted - 10 February 2003 19:06
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When we say G-d "wants" we don’t really mean "want". At least, not in the sense that we "want" things. It’s just a moshol. It means that G-d decreed it should be so. Not because there’s any benefit for Him; not because there’s any need in Him; but simply because He said so.

He said so because for whatever reason, He decided by His own free will with no compulsion or not need to - that He wants to do good for us.

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