For an enlarged, easier to read index click here . To "google search" this site, scroll to the bottom of this page. (This site is best viewed with "Firefox")

(Tips: F11 key enables full screen viewing & Ctrl-F to search the index)


ZIONISM / ANTI-----yishuv eretz yisroel? III

LJoe Posted - 17 April 2002 16:32

True: all "great" Zionist leaders where vehemently anti-Frum. But now we have a State, Eretz Avosaynu is free. If one is going to be an anti-Zionist, why move to Eretz Yisrael?

Secondly, if you are to live in Eretz Yisrael, why oppose the government? Of course it would be ideal to have the Perfect Medina, but we don’t, so either live in it and live with it, or don’t be oleh at all.

What are we supposed to do, give it back to the British/Turks?

MODERATOR Posted - 17 April 2002 18:05

Eretz Avoseinu is not supposed to be "free" during Golus. That’s why Hashem sent us into Golus, because we are no longer able to own "Eretz Avoseinu." The very possession of governmental control in Eretz Yisroel is a sin. Please see "Different Types of Orthodoxy", where this issue is discussed at length.

The opposition to Zionism extends only to governmental control over EY, and to the idea of a Jewish "homeland" before Moshiach. Living in Eretz Yisroel has nothing to do with Zionism c"v, and the reason for it is to fulfill the Mitzvos or the land, to live in its holiness, and, according to some opinions, to fulfill the Mitzvah of living in EY which may apply nowadays.

These Mitzvos and concepts applied equally before there was a Medinah as they do after. And they apply today to someone who lives in Southern Lebanon, which Halachicly is part of Eretz Yisroel, as much as in Tel Aviv. The Kedusha of Eretz Yisroel has nothing to do with the Medina. It has to do with Eretz Yisroel.

Opposition to the government is due to the fact that there is much to oppose there. The heretics that run the government there have no right to violate the Torah, and no right to put Jews in danger, and no right to even present themselves or their Medinah as representative of the Jewish People.

It says nowhere that Jews do not have freedom of speech to oppose that which deserves to be opposed just because it comes from the Israeli government.

All Jews have a right to live in Eretz Yisroel and fulfill the Torah - including opposing the government where appropriate - and no elected officials have a right to tell them they cant.

As far as what to do, I don’t know. As I wrote elsewhere on the boards, the Zionists were warned by the Gedolim that is they go through with their idea of making a Jewish State in Eretz Yisroel, they will be surrounded by hundreds of millions of Arabs, who were instigated by the Zionists' threat of taking away the land where they live and making it into a Jewish State, into becoming bloodthirsty enemies of the Jews, which will result in endless slaughter of Jewish lives.

They heard this would happen but not being religious, they thought that having our own land will make us just like everyone else, and we will not be hated any longer. Our Tzadikim understood that anti-Semitism has nothing to do with social issues but rather is a spiritual reality and that the "we-will-blow-you-all-up-with-our-tanks-if-you-start-up-with-us" attitude of the Zionists only serves to put Jewish lives all over the world in danger and just increase anti-Semitism.

Which it did.

So now you ask what to do? I don’t know. I don’t think there is anything to do to "solve" the problem. We need to constantly see what to do to protect each and every Jew in EY and elsewhere, but the problem of the Arabs wanting the land will not be solved. And it cannot be solved by abolishing the Medinah because due to the behavior of the Zionists over the past 50 years the Arabs now hate our guts and want to kill us all, which makes giving the Medinah to the Arabs a terrible idea.

After the Medinah was created, there was no going back. The problem was created, and, al pi derech hatevah, will be with us till Moshiach comes. Only Hashem can get us out of this one. We have to return to Him with all our hearts and pray for His salvation.

No comments: