For an enlarged, easier to read index click here . To "google search" this site, scroll to the bottom of this page. (This site is best viewed with "Firefox")

(Tips: F11 key enables full screen viewing & Ctrl-F to search the index)


WOMEN-----learning torah III

MODERATOR Posted - 08 October 2003 15:41

What does the Telzer dynasty have to do with this?

Torah does straighten out a person, but not the way you think. For men, it means learning Torah. For girls, the Gemora asks, since girls do not learn Torah "nashim b'mai zachyan - how do women get the merit of Torah?" and it answers, "By encouraging their husbands and children to learn in the Bais Medrash, and waiting for them to come home when they are there." Rav Yonason Eyebushitz says that the Gemora means that women get the full extent of the benefits of Torah by supporting their husbands and children in their learning.

Note that the Gemora had no other answer as to how women merit Torah except this.

So that's how it will straighten out your heart. It’s a supernatural process. Torah is not a science. It works only the way Chazal said it does, and that means girls don’t learn Torah shebal peh.

It’s a halachah in shulchan aruch. Look it up. Hilchos Talmud Torah. That IS relevant to you. It’s something that it not disputed.

The problem with learning Kabalah is not that they neglect Gemora; the problem is that they are not allowed to learn Kabalah. That applies even if it "turns them on."

The same thing for girls and Torah she bal peh.


It mentions "father" only because in those days that’s how people learned - there was no Bais Yaakovs. But the prohibition has nothing to do with your father exclusively. Nobody is allowed to teach you Torah shebal Peh.

joeleeraa Posted - 20 November 2003 16:38

I heard she says that if girls see the beauty of Torah than they will appreciate their husbands learning much more. I'm not sure why they have to learn korbonos though.

MODERATOR Posted - 20 November 2003 16:47

Nope - there are plenty of topics relevant to girls form which they can just as clearly see the "beauty of Torah".

Second, that never was a heter to teach girls torah shebal peh - the shulchan aruch says it’s assur despite this.

Third, the way girls learn in BY is so not the way men learn that even if a girl gets straight alephs she still hasn’t a clue as to pilpula d'oraisa, or sugya aliba d'hilchasa - or learning Gemora for that matter, which is what her husband is doing. Whatever she was made to appreciate is not in the slightest what her husband is doing. On the contrary - how many girls, coming out of academics-intense BYs end up with an attitude that "girls know chumash/tanach better than boys" or "girls learn more maharals than boys" (that was actually said on this site)?

Fourth - this is one of the bogus heterim used in Modern Orthodox circles to teach girls Gemora - so that they will appreciate their husbands learning in Kollel more. Of course, it doesn’t work for all of the above and more reasons.

Fifth, if that is the idea, they should give it up, for clearly, there is no correlation between the scholarship of the girls and desire for talmid chacham husbands. According to this cheshbon, the more academics-intense schools and seminaries should put out much more kollel women than the less academic intense, but clearly, that is not so. Appreciation for Torah form a woman's perspective comes form the same place it always did - Yiras Shamayim and commitment to their role as Nshei Chayil. Keeping them up till 1:00 am breaking their heads on the Ramban doesn’t help.

MODERATOR Posted - 24 November 2003 9:12

You do get schar, but not the full scar that a man gets. When you learn Torah, you get the reward of an aino metzuvah v'oseh.

Please see the halachah in shulchan aruch hilchos talmud torah about this. This is explicit, as well as what women may and may not learn.

Punims Posted - 19 December 2003 18:19

Well anyway, who cares whether we get as much schar as them or not????

When we learn we're gathering more information so that we can answer other's questions and be able to raise Torah children and become closer to our Creator... That's just a comfort to us women

Hey! It's better, we're learning completely l'shem shamayim!

Posted - 19 December 2003 18:31

The schar, punims, is getting closer to your Creator. When it says you don’t get as much schar, it means you don’t get as close to your creator. And answering questions is good, of course, but its not your obligation to be able to do so - G-d gave that mandate to men.

That having been said, Torahs in Emunah and Hashkafa are in the category of "halachos that are relevant to you" and so you are allowed - and in some cases obligated - to learn them.

No comments: